[INTJ] Is he going to ignore me?

[kyuuei]

It wasn't an ultimatum, not really anyway.

I'm of a personal mindframe that if you have no intentions of being a friend to someone, you have little intentions for more than friendship to last. But that's neither here nor there. The fact you told him how it had to be was fine. That's good stuff. The part that makes it an ultimatum is the time. You mentioned he had less than a month to reply? eh? Like, if it's more than a month you just cannot be bothered for him? It makes him sound like he's only worth about 2-3 weeks of consideration. Not something I'd stick around for. Sure, a month of ignores is usually more than customary to write a short note back saying that you respect his decision and what not.. but throwing the timeline on him so hard and fast like that makes it an all-or-nothing thing. Like it's not even his decision, he's got to decide between your parameters. You're still trying to control the situation.

Yes I messed up but at the time I didn't understand him.

Also happens all the time. You live and learn. And yeah, some of that stuff? Is really creep. But did you ever bother just telling him it was creep without also judging him? Usually I find girls tend to be creeped out--but never say they are.. so the dude just keeps doing the creepy stuff unaware.. just as unaware as you were. Y'all sound both young and still learning.

And since he isn't very verbal and direct unless I corner him, I'm sort of left assuming things.

You know what they say about assumptions. Look, follow your instincts. The only difference between romantic acts and creep acts is if you find the guy attractive or not. There's little difference outside of that. He has no reason to be verbal and direct--he was on first. He was as direct as he knew how. And it made things worse. Of course his natural reaction is to pull back. Just like it was yours. It's okay to listen to instincts.. but following them to a T isn't always the best course. You never break out of your comfort zone and make more efficient things muscle memory that way.

That being said I get what your saying. I messed up. I can't expect for him to come running back to me after I messed up as much as I did. And I'm okay with that but why not just say "no I don't want to be your bf" and leave it at that. I would respect and understand that more than plain ignoring it.

Except you don't know if the issue is ignored just because he didn't talk to you about it yet. Or, maybe its eating him alive trying to figure it out. Or maybe some other nice girl is talking to him and he's conflicted. Orrr, here's a crazy one, you told him he could take his time without consequence and so he is... measuring his thoughts and actions perfectly before he reaches back out again either way. There's a hundred scenarios for plausible and understandable reasons why he'd delay responding. Nothing to be upset about though--especially if you literally told him it was cool.

He could very well be ignoring you. Trying to block this whole thing out for a while, get his head straight, be vengeful.. whatever. You don't really know.. speculating doesn't help, and usually harbors resentment that could put a damper on if something positive does happen or is going on that you can't see.

I'm generally good at reading people under normal circumstances, btw. But in this situation I plain sucked. But now I know if I do ever date an intj again how to approach it differently. It's a learning experience. I just learned a bit too late.

it happens. You'll figure things out. And besides, not all INTJs are creep. Some are pretty in tune with things. Immaturity has a lot more to do with this than type.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I find it amusing in a way but also am pissed off because all he had to say was "no I don't want to be your bf bitch your crazy lol" . Him ignoring it is a bruise to my ego and my feelz. Eventually I will get over it.

I'm glad to hear some clear thinking there. Understanding that this all sucks but knowing that once you get whatever closure you need, and cry on your pillow (or whatever girls do, I punch walls) life will carry on.

Your emotions have really taken over, and believe me, I know exactly what that feels like. At times it becomes such an obsession, you can't even think straight. I think you gotta just figure out how much more you can take, cuz at anytime you can CHOOSE to walk away (I think, haha).

But I did have a question. Did you ever think about why you pushed him away in the first place?

Sooooooo many times people break up, or don't get together for VERY good reasons. Then once they lose that person, they forget ALL of those reasons. And sometimes when/if they get back together all the same those reasons come back, all the stuff that made you hesitant and doubtful (after the initial euphoria is over, of course).

Not saying this is your case, but it often is.

I've had so many girlfriends that I've pushed away I lost count. Some, relationship never budded, some it was very easy, some it was very hard but knew it was right, and then a couple that I came crawling back, practically grovelling like a fucking beggar. Pretty pitiful, actually.

Neither of the two I wanted back took me back, and one if them, it was a damn good thing, cuz really, she was just super hot, but that was about it (ok, she was a warm person, but other than physical, we weren't on the same frequency).

I'd love to see some statistics on how often "getting back together" actually works. I'm sure it happens, but it's never happened for me. The last one, we kind of tried, but she was already dating this dude pretty seriously, and I wasn't ABOUT to try to keep making that work while she was still fucking him ESPECIALLY since I still had doubts. And I don't do friendzones.

Lesson, don't fuck with people's shit, and don't take people for granted. Last part easier said than done. But doable.

In the meantime, perhaps take up a hobby? Such as collecting stray, or homeless cats and taking your first steps towards becoming a crazy Cat Lady that don't need no man.



edit: and a lot of the specific advice I've been hearing, it doesn't really matter. Sending him a birthday card exactly 15.5 days late, using a mostly teal color, and putting it in a yellow envelope, but making sure to use no more than 2 smiley faces isn't going to magically make him take you back.

Sounds like you've done what you can, the most important is letting him know how you really feel. The rest is like flapping your arms, trying to fly (I heard this one guy did it, but he was on a lot of crystal meth).

And I don't know what this guy is like, but I'd be eating things like birthday cards up, but not really doing anything about it, and thinking "Yeah that's right bitch, you put me through hell, and now it's your turn." Then again, I'm a rather warped individual.

 

[Chthonic]

Lesson, don't fuck with people's shit, and don't take people for granted. Last part easier said than done. But doable.

In the meantime, perhaps take up a hobby? Such as collecting stray, or homeless cats and taking your first steps towards becoming a crazy Cat Lady that don't need no man.

Hey! I resemble that comment. But I still like to fuck with peoples shit, just not when I actually want to fuck them, at least I wait until afterwards.

edit: and a lot of the specific advice I've been hearing, it doesn't really matter. Sending him a birthday card exactly 15.5 days late, using a mostly teal color, and putting it in a yellow envelope, but making sure to use no more than 2 smiley faces isn't going to magically make him take you back.

No. But putting a unicorn in it might. And if that doesn't work there's always facebook stalking.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Hey! I resemble that comment. But I still like to fuck with peoples shit, just not when I actually want to fuck them, at least I wait until afterwards.

So let me get this straight, you fuck with people's shit if you don't wanna fuck 'em, but if it's someone you wanna fuck, then you don't fuck with their shit, but after you fuck 'em, you then fuck with their shit?

Seems reasonable.

You have a lot of cats don't you?

No. But putting a unicorn in it might. And if that doesn't work there's always facebook stalking.

Nothing will mend the broken bond of Lost Love quicker than obsessively pouring over some guy's every picture, looking for girls he's with, trying to read too much into status updates, and generally making yourself go batshit crazy. Do this, and you will surely be united forever with your lost love.

 

[Chthonic]

So let me get this straight, you fuck with people's shit if you don't wanna fuck 'em, but if it's someone you wanna fuck, then you don't fuck with their shit, but after you fuck 'em, you then fuck with their shit?

You see how simple this is?

You have a lot of cats don't you?

29 and counting. But 'technically' the one-eyed foster cat with a drooling problem isnt actually mine.

Nothing will mend the broken bond of Lost Love quicker than obsessively pouring over some guy's every picture, looking for girls he's with, trying to read too much into status updates, and generally making yourself go batshit crazy. Do this, and you will surely be united forever with your lost love.

Yes. In similar ways to how people are united with herpes or embarassing body hair. I really feel you and I have enormous energy synchronicity, its like destiny or something. Please PM me a link to your facebook page.

 

[johnnyyukon]

You see how simple this is?



29 and counting. But 'technically' the one-eyed foster cat with a drooling problem isnt actually mine.



Yes. In similar ways to how people are united with herpes or embarassing body hair. I really feel you and I have enormous energy synchronicity, its like destiny or something. Please PM me a link to your facebook page.

LOL

errrr, yeah, um, could take me a minute to find the address. It's in my rolodex somewhere. I really wanna give it to you, but I'll have to look for it, could be a few months.

 

[rayna]

I'm of a personal mindframe that if you have no intentions of being a friend to someone, you have little intentions for more than friendship to last. But that's neither here nor there. The fact you told him how it had to be was fine. That's good stuff. The part that makes it an ultimatum is the time. You mentioned he had less than a month to reply? eh? Like, if it's more than a month you just cannot be bothered for him? It makes him sound like he's only worth about 2-3 weeks of consideration. Not something I'd stick around for. Sure, a month of ignores is usually more than customary to write a short note back saying that you respect his decision and what not.. but throwing the timeline on him so hard and fast like that makes it an all-or-nothing thing. Like it's not even his decision, he's got to decide between your parameters. You're still trying to control the situation.



Also happens all the time. You live and learn. And yeah, some of that stuff? Is really creep. But did you ever bother just telling him it was creep without also judging him? Usually I find girls tend to be creeped out--but never say they are.. so the dude just keeps doing the creepy stuff unaware.. just as unaware as you were. Y'all sound both young and still learning.



You know what they say about assumptions. Look, follow your instincts. The only difference between romantic acts and creep acts is if you find the guy attractive or not. There's little difference outside of that. He has no reason to be verbal and direct--he was on first. He was as direct as he knew how. And it made things worse. Of course his natural reaction is to pull back. Just like it was yours. It's okay to listen to instincts.. but following them to a T isn't always the best course. You never break out of your comfort zone and make more efficient things muscle memory that way.



Except you don't know if the issue is ignored just because he didn't talk to you about it yet. Or, maybe its eating him alive trying to figure it out. Or maybe some other nice girl is talking to him and he's conflicted. Orrr, here's a crazy one, you told him he could take his time without consequence and so he is... measuring his thoughts and actions perfectly before he reaches back out again either way. There's a hundred scenarios for plausible and understandable reasons why he'd delay responding. Nothing to be upset about though--especially if you literally told him it was cool.

He could very well be ignoring you. Trying to block this whole thing out for a while, get his head straight, be vengeful.. whatever. You don't really know.. speculating doesn't help, and usually harbors resentment that could put a damper on if something positive does happen or is going on that you can't see.



it happens. You'll figure things out. And besides, not all INTJs are creep. Some are pretty in tune with things. Immaturity has a lot more to do with this than type.

Ok, I didn't think about the fact that placing a time limit on it was controlling... I was merely trying not to put myself in a position where I would be waiting a long period of time only to be told that he had no interest anyway--in other words, I wanted to give him space, but I also wanted to give myself an opportunity to move on as quickly as possible if he wasn't interested, and sitting around waiting for him to make a decision that might not be favorable would suck, because that time could be spent dating someone else with a clean slate. I also felt at the time, that it shouldn't take that long to decide whether you want to be with someone or not. He knows on some level what he wants--most people do--it shouldn't take months to come to that decision.

But I get what your saying. For months, I've strung him along, changed my mind, changed the circumstances of our friendship/relationship several times, and he was patient with it. Perhaps I should have exercised more patience with him and given him more time.

In regards to the creepiness... I mean yes I told him, indirectly that he was being too intense. I made comments to let him know, i.e. "you shouldn't be so obvious, keep me on my toes," or, "your stalking me, stop.", or "I can walk myself to my car" etc, or(after it became clear that everyone in our office thought we were dating because of him telling a few coworkers, and because of him frequently coming to my desk) "I don't want anyone in my business... I don't want them to think that we're dating. It's unprofessional and awkward" I mean these weren't the exact phrases, but something along the lines. I think it hurt his feelings though, because he frequently would send me messages saying, "are you going to be nice to me today?", etc, or "since you won't let me walk you to your car, I'm not going to talk to you today, etc" At the time I didn't know how to verbalize that his attention was scaring me, so I was a bit mean about it, but I had still liked him, I just wanted him to back off a bit.

I don't know what his issue was--maybe it was immaturity... I don't know. He's had girlfriends before, but I got this distinct feeling that he didn't feel very experienced or secure with trying to date... I was immature too. Very. But I wasn't experienced with dating, and didn't know what I was doing. I don't know the etiquettes of most things. For instance, I didn't realize it was rude to leave right after you "hook up"(if it's more than a ONS and you like), or that it would be offensive to not want to spend the night if he asked you to, or that you should talk to guys on the weekends(I was always told not to). Just everything I was doing was not necessarily intentional but just inexperience.

Your right, I am making a lot of assumptions. I don't truly know what's going on. He might respond, he might not... It may happen within the month period, it may not. I'm just preparing myself for the possibility that he won't. Oan, when I sent the letter, afterwards I realized that a part of me had wanted him to say "no", because then I would just move on right away, because I would know there is no hope. But not answering it all together just makes it feel unresolved at this point.

 

[rayna]

I'm glad to hear some clear thinking there. Understanding that this all sucks but knowing that once you get whatever closure you need, and cry on your pillow (or whatever girls do, I punch walls) life will carry on.

Your emotions have really taken over, and believe me, I know exactly what that feels like. At times it becomes such an obsession, you can't even think straight. I think you gotta just figure out how much more you can take, cuz at anytime you can CHOOSE to walk away (I think, haha).

But I did have a question. Did you ever think about why you pushed him away in the first place?

Sooooooo many times people break up, or don't get together for VERY good reasons. Then once they lose that person, they forget ALL of those reasons. And sometimes when/if they get back together all the same those reasons come back, all the stuff that made you hesitant and doubtful (after the initial euphoria is over, of course).

Not saying this is your case, but it often is.

I've had so many girlfriends that I've pushed away I lost count. Some, relationship never budded, some it was very easy, some it was very hard but knew it was right, and then a couple that I came crawling back, practically grovelling like a fucking beggar. Pretty pitiful, actually.

Neither of the two I wanted back took me back, and one if them, it was a damn good thing, cuz really, she was just super hot, but that was about it (ok, she was a warm person, but other than physical, we weren't on the same frequency).

I'd love to see some statistics on how often "getting back together" actually works. I'm sure it happens, but it's never happened for me. The last one, we kind of tried, but she was already dating this dude pretty seriously, and I wasn't ABOUT to try to keep making that work while she was still fucking him ESPECIALLY since I still had doubts. And I don't do friendzones.

Lesson, don't fuck with people's shit, and don't take people for granted. Last part easier said than done. But doable.

In the meantime, perhaps take up a hobby? Such as collecting stray, or homeless cats and taking your first steps towards becoming a crazy Cat Lady that don't need no man.



edit: and a lot of the specific advice I've been hearing, it doesn't really matter. Sending him a birthday card exactly 15.5 days late, using a mostly teal color, and putting it in a yellow envelope, but making sure to use no more than 2 smiley faces isn't going to magically make him take you back.

Sounds like you've done what you can, the most important is letting him know how you really feel. The rest is like flapping your arms, trying to fly (I heard this one guy did it, but he was on a lot of crystal meth).

And I don't know what this guy is like, but I'd be eating things like birthday cards up, but not really doing anything about it, and thinking "Yeah that's right bitch, you put me through hell, and now it's your turn." Then again, I'm a rather warped individual.

Meh, I pushed him away because he was too intense and I wasn't use to it. Beyond that, I had just gotten out of an LTR with a guy who was abusive, and my mother had died less than a year earlier. I wasn't ready to be vulnerable or to get too into someone only to end up getting hurt in the process. It was never about him, persay, but I just wasn't ready yet.

And honestly he knows I like him. We had talked about that before we even had sex, for the first time, back in August. So it was never a case of him not being certain of my feelings--he did need them to be validated more because he felt like I didn't do enough to show it, or that I would never say it to his face, but he knew I liked him. Just like I know that despite his weird behavior that he still likes me. The problem is that he knew I was being dishonest about what I really wanted with him, and rather than admitting it, I kept pretending that it wasn't--which in the end may have put him off. But I would be surprised if he was ignoring me deliberately to try to let me know how it feels to not be certain of feelings, since we both were pretty certain that we liked each other... The certainty issue is more about what's going to come of it. In any case, I get what your saying. I'm still not sending the bday card though. And I'm going to stop anonymously facebook stalking him lmao.

I do have hobbies and things going on, besides him. I've cut him off before(that time for two months) and with time i stopped having as much feelz.

 

[kyuuei]

I don't truly know what's going on. He might respond, he might not... It may happen within the month period, it may not. I'm just preparing myself for the possibility that he won't. Oan, when I sent the letter, afterwards I realized that a part of me had wanted him to say "no", because then I would just move on right away, because I would know there is no hope. But not answering it all together just makes it feel unresolved at this point.

I mean... Like I said, I don't know the guy at all--I can't really comment on what he's doing, he's not here to say his side of things. So I'm refraining from picking on him too much for a reason. With that said, I understand wanting resolution, and I hope you get it sooner rather than later. Just because I tell you putting that time stipulation looks like you're manipulating the situation doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong... If you want to be with him it might not be exactly right, but if you can't handle a month of ignoring that's still something you need to say. It's all a balance of things. It's not wrong to say things indirectly--he probably should have picked up on it. But a lack of directness means leaving room for interpretation and doubt.. And ENFPs are notorious for saying something serious, but in a lighthearted way in an attempt to spare the feelings of others (and more importantly, their own feelings about having to be direct at all) and so something that seems very direct and communicated well ends up in a message of "oh, it's okay, I'm not really upset and you don't need to change." It happens a lot..

... And then you have knuckleheads that'll ignore it even for a multitude of reasons. Wish you the best girl and I hope you get the answers you seek soon.

 

[johnnyyukon]

Meh, I pushed him away because he was too intense and I wasn't use to it. Beyond that, I had just gotten out of an LTR with a guy who was abusive, and my mother had died less than a year earlier. I wasn't ready to be vulnerable or to get too into someone only to end up getting hurt in the process. It was never about him, persay, but I just wasn't ready yet.

And honestly he knows I like him. We had talked about that before we even had sex, for the first time, back in August. So it was never a case of him not being certain of my feelings--he did need them to be validated more because he felt like I didn't do enough to show it, or that I would never say it to his face, but he knew I liked him. Just like I know that despite his weird behavior that he still likes me. The problem is that he knew I was being dishonest about what I really wanted with him, and rather than admitting it, I kept pretending that it wasn't--which in the end may have put him off. But I would be surprised if he was ignoring me deliberately to try to let me know how it feels to not be certain of feelings, since we both were pretty certain that we liked each other... The certainty issue is more about what's going to come of it. In any case, I get what your saying. I'm still not sending the bday card though. And I'm going to stop anonymously facebook stalking him lmao.

I do have hobbies and things going on, besides him. I've cut him off before(that time for two months) and with time i stopped having as much feelz.

So if, and that's a big "if", you were dating, back together, whatever, you're saying you now know how to handle his intensity? Or because of less drama and emotions elsewhere you would?

Are you going to be able to show him, through actions, how you feel?

He may not be ignoring you deliberately, but at the very least, is taking his sweet time. I don't know what he's thinking, but why then, is he ignoring you?

I respect that you're willing to go through all this, because you really like the dude, I recently did something similar (doing things that were against my relationship principles for the first time ever) so I respect it. And hope you get some answers soon.

Keep us updated. The suspense is killing me.

 

[grey_beard]

I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo." He was telling you everything from the beginning.

He was giving you literally every signal ever that he wanted you. Like, seriously, it cannot be more painfully obvious even from the first paragraph. He liked you bad--and you knew it from the start, because back in the first couple paragraphs you say, "Hey, I realized I was hot for him too." As soon as you knew you liked him, your attitude should have changed from 'I want to protect my precious unique feelings until I'm satisifed' to 'How do I make this happen so that I don't hurt him nor do I feel vulnerable?'

At the end of the day, you were SO pre-occupied with looking for excuses for why he invalidated you that you entirely invalidated ALL of the almost desperate moves he was making on you in the attempt to prove to you how assertive and genuine (in his own way) he was trying to be about this. I definitely would not have handled it as well, or as long, as this guy has.. And I don't blame him at all for giving you a dose of your own medicine. You definitely didn't give him ANY reason to believe you cared about him.. so why should he be in such a rush, now that you've been vulnerable, to say, "Oh, hey, let me assure you so much that you mean a lot to me."

... And that's just the NON-Boyfriend step. The levels of communication escalate when you get in a relationship. You need to be more assertive about how you feel, say things that are hard to say, and TAKE things that are difficult to hear from him. I'd be hesitating too, like you or not, to pick you up seeing these obvious attempts to lie and cover up feelings that were obviously reciprocated. You pretty much told him this whole time, "oh you're instincts are lying to you" then said, "Jk, you were right all along I like you and since I know you think I'm cool, can we date now plz?" like NONE of those games ever happened. It can EASILY be taken like "Oh, hey, turns out I was flirting with you all this time but I wasn't sure if I wanted you.. but then I realized I was lonely and you were the only one that actually cared/put up with my shit so I'm settling for you now. Oh, So, take it or leave it, and decide soon because I'm moving the fuck on and getting over this shit if you don't. I don't have time to play games." Ultimatums NEVER end well. Ever. Particularly since you really gave him the run for his money. A caring response enthusiastic about a potential relationship would be, "I know you might need to take time. But I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. and I'd like you to be here with me. So, when you're ready, contact me and we can talk about it."

Your actions mean something. And those ones you mentioned in your OP put a damper on a potential relationship.

Complete kudos on you for finally speaking up and realizing he is important to you. Some people never even get the courage to do that much. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh about this, but I've had a similar thing happen--a dude was hot/cold to me, and when I finally decided I needed to move on before I went insane, he confessed his feelings for me truly, and it was too late by then. I couldn't handle it. I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to make something there, and he was too busy being scared of what-ifs to see reality. It's a messy, self-fulfilling prophecy made out of illogical nonsense.

I dunno the guy, I can't speak at all about whether he will respond or not--But I'd graciously accept a decline/rejection if he doesn't. ... and if you really like him then I hope he's more forgiving and understanding than you are.. because you've got a long road ahead of you if he decides yes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. You say you've only been with one guy before... a lack of experience in relationships can really contribute heavily to this sort of stuff. Open communication is the key to solving a lot of needless drama. And You've got to be the one to initiate it. If it's on your mind, you have the responsibility to say it. Because what you don't say holds just as many consequences as what you do.

In the mean time, I'd look for ways to read other people's languages more.. and understand that people doing things not just like you would like them to does not mean they don't care about you. It's a struggle for several ENFPs, including myself. I have a guy that super cares for me, and even then I feel rejected over the stupidest things that aren't meant to even be the slightest bit rejecting. You just have to grow up, suck it up, and put on your thick skin and just have to trust that people are being genuine--even at the expense that sometimes they aren't and you'll get hurt.

[MENTION=22970]rayna[/MENTION] --

Listen to the above. It's *gold*.

The fact that he DIDN'T say "Go away" immediately when you asked him, speaks volumes. He hasn't necessarily autocauterized over you: and an emotion-laden 4-page letter,
telling him that you truly feel for him, (written letters take time and effort, and are generally felt to be more significant than a mere verbal reassurance) -- well, he now has to process
that, decide if he trusts it, re-evaluate your past actions in light of what the letter says, decide what to do, what type of response to give, and how to phrase it...as well as decide
if he can risk opening up one more time...

I'm an INTJ male, btw.

 

[rayna]

So if, and that's a big "if", you were dating, back together, whatever, you're saying you now know how to handle his intensity? Or because of less drama and emotions elsewhere you would?

Are you going to be able to show him, through actions, how you feel?

He may not be ignoring you deliberately, but at the very least, is taking his sweet time. I don't know what he's thinking, but why then, is he ignoring you?

I respect that you're willing to go through all this, because you really like the dude, I recently did something similar (doing things that were against my relationship principles for the first time ever) so I respect it. And hope you get some answers soon.

Keep us updated. The suspense is killing me.

Yes i believe I would be able to show him more... I mean before I didn't show him because I was too bust trying to keep him from knowing how deeply I felt. Now that the cats out of the bag, there isn't a reason to pretend.

I don't think he's ignoring me necessarily. I believe it's a combination of things. He spent the entire summer drunk, basically everyday, and going to concerts and doing a lot of social things. When I saw him last he told me he hadn't been going out as often and had been trying to drink less. He seemed like he might have been stressed. So he could just be withdrawing a bit because of being overwhelmed with how active he was over the summer.

On the other hand I also think that it might be disbelief or protection. For instance in the past whenever I would expose a bit of feelz to him, he would reciprocate. But then I would hurt him once he did. I noticed that after the last time, he stopped. He might not believe me or even if he does afraid that if he does respond favorably I will hurt him like I did the other 5 times.

Finally it could be to get a reaction. In the past when he was more expressive and persistent and direct about his feelings, I pushed him away. When he ignored me or was aloof I was hot on his tail. And would give him a lot of attention, not reject him if he asked me to hang out, or I would confront him and push him against corner forcing him to answer right away or else. So he would. But it seemed like perhaps he was deliberately being that way because he knew it was the only way to get my attention.

Finally my theory about him and relationships is that he likes to be the one to say "she forced me to be with her" as opposed to saying "I made the decision" that is how he talks about his relationships in the past. Despite the fact that he liked both women, they forced him into being with him. So when it didnt work out it was easy for him to say "well I didnt want to be with her anyway". It seems like with him he prefers the woman to make him commit instead of the other way around. And giving him the space to make the decision himself might feel like in the end he was the one that made the decision
Instead of being able to blame me of I force him to date me by making him tell me now or else. If that makes sense.

Also , from experience, it takes him a while to decide these things. It took him weeks before we actually started or fwb thing. Even though he agreed right away because I confronted him and pushed his back against the wall, he took a month before doing the do and even avoided me during that time. It was like he still needed to think about it. Prior to that other times it took him a while to do things too, like kissing, friendship, talking to me in person(he was intimidated or too nervous too) and I had to convince him with each one that I was harmless and that I wanted him to, before he would.
Another theory I'm attractive.. He has asked me several times why I like him why I'm attracted to him, and seems to need that validation because he doesn't believe it. His brother tried to get with me, and his friends act weird when I'm around. But to me he has dated a lot of attractive girls, but it seems based on his description of the ideal girl I fit it physically more than the others. But he has made weird insecure comments about it abc questions it a lot(even recently). So he might not believe it...


This is the first time ever that I have not directly confronted him, expected an answer or demanded an answer right away, or wasn't persistant in convincing him... So I guess he's going to take all the time he needs. Which was my intention. I didn't want him to feel forced...

But yes he's taking his sweet time!!!

I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to wait either.

 

[rayna]

[MENTION=22970]rayna[/MENTION] --

Listen to the above. It's *gold*.

The fact that he DIDN'T say "Go away" immediately when you asked him, speaks volumes. He hasn't necessarily autocauterized over you: and an emotion-laden 4-page letter,
telling him that you truly feel for him, (written letters take time and effort, and are generally felt to be more significant than a mere verbal reassurance) -- well, he now has to process
that, decide if he trusts it, re-evaluate your past actions in light of what the letter says, decide what to do, what type of response to give, and how to phrase it...as well as decide
if he can risk opening up one more time...

I'm an INTJ male, btw.

I understand it, I just assumed that he already knows deep down what he wants so I didn't imagine that he would need to take time to tell me yes or no. I didn't realize that he would be considering all that.

 

[johnnyyukon]

I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo."

Oh Q girl, you're something else

 

[ceecee]

I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to wait either.

I think you'll stay up on the rough old cross for as long you feel he deserves it.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

this thread makes me want to start the note campaign, "would you be interested in dating me? circle y or n. maybe=n" this whole situation seems needlessly complicated to be honest.

Has it become nutty and exaggerated? I don't know. I didn't read much of it. I'm just assuming, because ENFP.

Actually, I think she got dumped by Channing Tatum. Now it makes more sense.

[MENTION=22970]rayna[/MENTION] You attracted this guy. You can find another one just as good.

 

[rayna]

Meh ok. Obviously there are other fish in the sea , and I can find someone just as "good"(whatever that means) but there are some people you meet that you have a connection with, that you don't have with others. I meet men all the time, some are just as attractive or MORE attractive than the INTJ, but do they have the same connection with me, do I feel the same chemistry? No. And is there as much feeling there? No. I'll be completely honest here, I'm 27, in my 27 years I've only met 5 men that I've been sexually attracted to. One includes the INTJ. I can be attracted to a man, and like a man without having any sexual urges. I can like a man a lot and not feel any chemistry that would make us good together in a relationship on the same hand I can be very attracted to a man and just not feel any romantic feelings and so he becomes a friend. When I meet a man, that I am attracted to, have a connection with, that I want to have sex with, that I have a friendship with, etc I want to build on that... That just so happens to be the INTJ. That's not to say that there won't be other men like that, that I'll meet down the road. But it's easy to just meet anybody, even people that are attractive but have little in common with me, or that don't share the same connection with me. I'm not looking for just anyone though, especially not to have a relationship with. If I was interested in casual sex and was sexually attracted to more men, then yes I suppose "anybody" attractive or just as "good" would do. But that's not the case. But if you didn't read the thread entirely, why respond?

To me it's simple too. A yes or no, should be easy to spit out, but as I'm reading on here, it isn't always the case... I don't get it either. But it's a bit insulting to just discount the fact that I have deep feelings for him, so no at this point trying to find someone just as good is not really good advice. Coming from infp and all. Which btw I'm an enfp but I've also scored infp before as well.

 

[rayna]

I think you'll stay up on the rough old cross for as long you feel he deserves it.

I don't know about that. Deep down I "feel" that a person knows whether they want a relationship with person (x) or not. And that if it takes a long time to figure it out, somethings wrong. Granted, in my situation, the something that is wrong, is the dynamics of what went on between us. So at this point, that is the only reason I'm trying to give him space... Because I'd like him to make a decision that he is certain about... On the other hand I also know from reading up on INTJs, that it's far too easy for many to pull the disappearing act when they are put in a emotional situation that makes them uncomfortable or when they don't feel the same way about that person(and don't know how to tell it delicately to that person). So it could easily turn into many months with no response from him, because he never intends to respond in the first place. And that's what I'm also considering. If I don't hear from him by the end of this month, my plan is to reach out to him and remind him to get back to me, if he still does not then I have to move on.

The funny thing is, that when I wrote that letter I was hoping for closure... Either way. I wanted a yes or a no.

I always read that INTJS are very direct and that it's easy for them to respond honestly to a question. With him, it is but only for certain situations, seems like whenever it comes to his feelings for me, he won't answer me directly, or just will avoid answering at all. I don't get why it's so hard to just tell someone like it is and be done with it.

 

[prplchknz]

Has it become nutty and exaggerated? I don't know. I didn't read much of it. I'm just assuming, because ENFP.

Actually, I think she got dumped by Channing Tatum. Now it makes more sense.

[MENTION=22970]rayna[/MENTION] You attracted this guy. You can find another one just as good.

rayna knows channing tatum? this is a strange rumor to start but if we must we must.

 

[Redbone]

I don't get why it's so hard to just tell someone like it is and be done with it.

It looks like he's already done that. But it seems that every time he did, it didn't turn out well for him. He can care and still be silent. You're asking a lot from him. I can understand him being hesitant and needing space to decide if he's willing to go through it all again.

If you really do care about him, then it seems to me giving him the time he needs to come to a decision shouldn't be that big of a deal. I can understand the gut-wrenching feelings of not knowing, wondering, doubting...it's not a pleasant thing. But who is this for--you or him?