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  1. #71
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo." He was telling you everything from the beginning.

    He was giving you literally every signal ever that he wanted you. Like, seriously, it cannot be more painfully obvious even from the first paragraph. He liked you bad--and you knew it from the start, because back in the first couple paragraphs you say, "Hey, I realized I was hot for him too." As soon as you knew you liked him, your attitude should have changed from 'I want to protect my precious unique feelings until I'm satisifed' to 'How do I make this happen so that I don't hurt him nor do I feel vulnerable?'

    At the end of the day, you were SO pre-occupied with looking for excuses for why he invalidated you that you entirely invalidated ALL of the almost desperate moves he was making on you in the attempt to prove to you how assertive and genuine (in his own way) he was trying to be about this. I definitely would not have handled it as well, or as long, as this guy has.. And I don't blame him at all for giving you a dose of your own medicine. You definitely didn't give him ANY reason to believe you cared about him.. so why should he be in such a rush, now that you've been vulnerable, to say, "Oh, hey, let me assure you so much that you mean a lot to me."

    ... And that's just the NON-Boyfriend step. The levels of communication escalate when you get in a relationship. You need to be more assertive about how you feel, say things that are hard to say, and TAKE things that are difficult to hear from him. I'd be hesitating too, like you or not, to pick you up seeing these obvious attempts to lie and cover up feelings that were obviously reciprocated. You pretty much told him this whole time, "oh you're instincts are lying to you" then said, "Jk, you were right all along I like you and since I know you think I'm cool, can we date now plz?" like NONE of those games ever happened. It can EASILY be taken like "Oh, hey, turns out I was flirting with you all this time but I wasn't sure if I wanted you.. but then I realized I was lonely and you were the only one that actually cared/put up with my shit so I'm settling for you now. Oh, So, take it or leave it, and decide soon because I'm moving the fuck on and getting over this shit if you don't. I don't have time to play games." Ultimatums NEVER end well. Ever. Particularly since you really gave him the run for his money. A caring response enthusiastic about a potential relationship would be, "I know you might need to take time. But I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. and I'd like you to be here with me. So, when you're ready, contact me and we can talk about it."

    Your actions mean something. And those ones you mentioned in your OP put a damper on a potential relationship.

    Complete kudos on you for finally speaking up and realizing he is important to you. Some people never even get the courage to do that much. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh about this, but I've had a similar thing happen--a dude was hot/cold to me, and when I finally decided I needed to move on before I went insane, he confessed his feelings for me truly, and it was too late by then. I couldn't handle it. I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to make something there, and he was too busy being scared of what-ifs to see reality. It's a messy, self-fulfilling prophecy made out of illogical nonsense.

    I dunno the guy, I can't speak at all about whether he will respond or not--But I'd graciously accept a decline/rejection if he doesn't. ... and if you really like him then I hope he's more forgiving and understanding than you are.. because you've got a long road ahead of you if he decides yes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. You say you've only been with one guy before... a lack of experience in relationships can really contribute heavily to this sort of stuff. Open communication is the key to solving a lot of needless drama. And You've got to be the one to initiate it. If it's on your mind, you have the responsibility to say it. Because what you don't say holds just as many consequences as what you do.

    In the mean time, I'd look for ways to read other people's languages more.. and understand that people doing things not just like you would like them to does not mean they don't care about you. It's a struggle for several ENFPs, including myself. I have a guy that super cares for me, and even then I feel rejected over the stupidest things that aren't meant to even be the slightest bit rejecting. You just have to grow up, suck it up, and put on your thick skin and just have to trust that people are being genuine--even at the expense that sometimes they aren't and you'll get hurt.
    @rayna --

    Listen to the above. It's *gold*.

    The fact that he DIDN'T say "Go away" immediately when you asked him, speaks volumes. He hasn't necessarily autocauterized over you: and an emotion-laden 4-page letter,
    telling him that you truly feel for him, (written letters take time and effort, and are generally felt to be more significant than a mere verbal reassurance) -- well, he now has to process
    that, decide if he trusts it, re-evaluate your past actions in light of what the letter says, decide what to do, what type of response to give, and how to phrase it...as well as decide
    if he can risk opening up one more time...

    I'm an INTJ male, btw.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    So if, and that's a big "if", you were dating, back together, whatever, you're saying you now know how to handle his intensity? Or because of less drama and emotions elsewhere you would?

    Are you going to be able to show him, through actions, how you feel?

    He may not be ignoring you deliberately, but at the very least, is taking his sweet time. I don't know what he's thinking, but why then, is he ignoring you?

    I respect that you're willing to go through all this, because you really like the dude, I recently did something similar (doing things that were against my relationship principles for the first time ever) so I respect it. And hope you get some answers soon.

    Keep us updated. The suspense is killing me.


    Yes i believe I would be able to show him more... I mean before I didn't show him because I was too bust trying to keep him from knowing how deeply I felt. Now that the cats out of the bag, there isn't a reason to pretend.

    I don't think he's ignoring me necessarily. I believe it's a combination of things. He spent the entire summer drunk, basically everyday, and going to concerts and doing a lot of social things. When I saw him last he told me he hadn't been going out as often and had been trying to drink less. He seemed like he might have been stressed. So he could just be withdrawing a bit because of being overwhelmed with how active he was over the summer.

    On the other hand I also think that it might be disbelief or protection. For instance in the past whenever I would expose a bit of feelz to him, he would reciprocate. But then I would hurt him once he did. I noticed that after the last time, he stopped. He might not believe me or even if he does afraid that if he does respond favorably I will hurt him like I did the other 5 times.

    Finally it could be to get a reaction. In the past when he was more expressive and persistent and direct about his feelings, I pushed him away. When he ignored me or was aloof I was hot on his tail. And would give him a lot of attention, not reject him if he asked me to hang out, or I would confront him and push him against corner forcing him to answer right away or else. So he would. But it seemed like perhaps he was deliberately being that way because he knew it was the only way to get my attention.

    Finally my theory about him and relationships is that he likes to be the one to say "she forced me to be with her" as opposed to saying "I made the decision" that is how he talks about his relationships in the past. Despite the fact that he liked both women, they forced him into being with him. So when it didnt work out it was easy for him to say "well I didnt want to be with her anyway". It seems like with him he prefers the woman to make him commit instead of the other way around. And giving him the space to make the decision himself might feel like in the end he was the one that made the decision
    Instead of being able to blame me of I force him to date me by making him tell me now or else. If that makes sense.

    Also , from experience, it takes him a while to decide these things. It took him weeks before we actually started or fwb thing. Even though he agreed right away because I confronted him and pushed his back against the wall, he took a month before doing the do and even avoided me during that time. It was like he still needed to think about it. Prior to that other times it took him a while to do things too, like kissing, friendship, talking to me in person(he was intimidated or too nervous too) and I had to convince him with each one that I was harmless and that I wanted him to, before he would.
    Another theory I'm attractive.. He has asked me several times why I like him why I'm attracted to him, and seems to need that validation because he doesn't believe it. His brother tried to get with me, and his friends act weird when I'm around. But to me he has dated a lot of attractive girls, but it seems based on his description of the ideal girl I fit it physically more than the others. But he has made weird insecure comments about it abc questions it a lot(even recently). So he might not believe it...


    This is the first time ever that I have not directly confronted him, expected an answer or demanded an answer right away, or wasn't persistant in convincing him... So I guess he's going to take all the time he needs. Which was my intention. I didn't want him to feel forced...

    But yes he's taking his sweet time!!!

    I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to wait either.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @rayna --

    Listen to the above. It's *gold*.

    The fact that he DIDN'T say "Go away" immediately when you asked him, speaks volumes. He hasn't necessarily autocauterized over you: and an emotion-laden 4-page letter,
    telling him that you truly feel for him, (written letters take time and effort, and are generally felt to be more significant than a mere verbal reassurance) -- well, he now has to process
    that, decide if he trusts it, re-evaluate your past actions in light of what the letter says, decide what to do, what type of response to give, and how to phrase it...as well as decide
    if he can risk opening up one more time...

    I'm an INTJ male, btw.
    I understand it, I just assumed that he already knows deep down what he wants so I didn't imagine that he would need to take time to tell me yes or no. I didn't realize that he would be considering all that.

  4. #74
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo."
    Oh Q girl, you're something else
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.
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  5. #75
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post

    I'm not sure how much longer I'm going to wait either.
    I think you'll stay up on the rough old cross for as long you feel he deserves it.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  6. #76
    Problem? Grand Admiral Crunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    this thread makes me want to start the note campaign, "would you be interested in dating me? circle y or n. maybe=n" this whole situation seems needlessly complicated to be honest.
    Has it become nutty and exaggerated? I don't know. I didn't read much of it. I'm just assuming, because ENFP.


    Actually, I think she got dumped by Channing Tatum. Now it makes more sense.

    @rayna You attracted this guy. You can find another one just as good.

  7. #77
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    Meh ok. Obviously there are other fish in the sea , and I can find someone just as "good"(whatever that means) but there are some people you meet that you have a connection with, that you don't have with others. I meet men all the time, some are just as attractive or MORE attractive than the INTJ, but do they have the same connection with me, do I feel the same chemistry? No. And is there as much feeling there? No. I'll be completely honest here, I'm 27, in my 27 years I've only met 5 men that I've been sexually attracted to. One includes the INTJ. I can be attracted to a man, and like a man without having any sexual urges. I can like a man a lot and not feel any chemistry that would make us good together in a relationship on the same hand I can be very attracted to a man and just not feel any romantic feelings and so he becomes a friend. When I meet a man, that I am attracted to, have a connection with, that I want to have sex with, that I have a friendship with, etc I want to build on that... That just so happens to be the INTJ. That's not to say that there won't be other men like that, that I'll meet down the road. But it's easy to just meet anybody, even people that are attractive but have little in common with me, or that don't share the same connection with me. I'm not looking for just anyone though, especially not to have a relationship with. If I was interested in casual sex and was sexually attracted to more men, then yes I suppose "anybody" attractive or just as "good" would do. But that's not the case. But if you didn't read the thread entirely, why respond?

    To me it's simple too. A yes or no, should be easy to spit out, but as I'm reading on here, it isn't always the case... I don't get it either. But it's a bit insulting to just discount the fact that I have deep feelings for him, so no at this point trying to find someone just as good is not really good advice. Coming from infp and all. Which btw I'm an enfp but I've also scored infp before as well.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I think you'll stay up on the rough old cross for as long you feel he deserves it.
    I don't know about that. Deep down I "feel" that a person knows whether they want a relationship with person (x) or not. And that if it takes a long time to figure it out, somethings wrong. Granted, in my situation, the something that is wrong, is the dynamics of what went on between us. So at this point, that is the only reason I'm trying to give him space... Because I'd like him to make a decision that he is certain about... On the other hand I also know from reading up on INTJs, that it's far too easy for many to pull the disappearing act when they are put in a emotional situation that makes them uncomfortable or when they don't feel the same way about that person(and don't know how to tell it delicately to that person). So it could easily turn into many months with no response from him, because he never intends to respond in the first place. And that's what I'm also considering. If I don't hear from him by the end of this month, my plan is to reach out to him and remind him to get back to me, if he still does not then I have to move on.

    The funny thing is, that when I wrote that letter I was hoping for closure... Either way. I wanted a yes or a no.

    I always read that INTJS are very direct and that it's easy for them to respond honestly to a question. With him, it is but only for certain situations, seems like whenever it comes to his feelings for me, he won't answer me directly, or just will avoid answering at all. I don't get why it's so hard to just tell someone like it is and be done with it.

  9. #79
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDarkSide View Post
    Has it become nutty and exaggerated? I don't know. I didn't read much of it. I'm just assuming, because ENFP.


    Actually, I think she got dumped by Channing Tatum. Now it makes more sense.

    @rayna You attracted this guy. You can find another one just as good.
    rayna knows channing tatum? this is a strange rumor to start but if we must we must.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  10. #80
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    I don't get why it's so hard to just tell someone like it is and be done with it.
    It looks like he's already done that. But it seems that every time he did, it didn't turn out well for him. He can care and still be silent. You're asking a lot from him. I can understand him being hesitant and needing space to decide if he's willing to go through it all again.

    If you really do care about him, then it seems to me giving him the time he needs to come to a decision shouldn't be that big of a deal. I can understand the gut-wrenching feelings of not knowing, wondering, doubting...it's not a pleasant thing. But who is this for--you or him?
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