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  1. #51
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Sometimes, a lack of reply is because of the emotional effort that needs to be put into it. I've taken my time getting back to people before, when it was emotionally demanding. For most thinking types, that stuff is draining.
    You lose.

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  2. #52
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    and then say, btw did you get the email I sent you a few weeks ago, and see what he says.
    Leave that part off. Saying happy birthday is fine, but mentioning the email shows that you're wanting a quick response, which is inconsistent with what you told him. It's more of the same. INTJs, if anything, are consistent and stable, and appreciate that in others too. Stick with your word, and stick with the spirit of your word.
    You lose.

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  3. #53
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Sometimes, a lack of reply is because of the emotional effort that needs to be put into it. I've taken my time getting back to people before, when it was emotionally demanding. For most thinking types, that stuff is draining.
    I second this. Combined with a tendency to be perfectionist and to appreciate the value of choosing our words well, responding to her will require significant effort, at least if he cares at all. If he doesn't, he probably would have said so by now. That would be easy.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #54
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    Thank you! I had bought the birthday card, but I've decided against sending it. Deep down I have a feeling he won't respond to the email. I know that he got it, since usually by now he would have said something to me since we haven't seen each other in a while. I think there might be too much feelz for him in the letter, and in addition despite me telling him that I would be okay with him saying no, maybe he doesn't think that I would be, so he's choosing to just disappear to make it easier. I would love to say he's crafting a perfect response but I just don't believe it. I know him, and I think that this is deliberate. He either wants me to get a clue, or he thinks I'm going to do what I've done in the past and confront him and make him make a decision right on the spot(confronting him seems to be the only way in the time I've met him where he's responded right away). The last few girls he dated made him be their boyfriend by doing something similar and from previous convos I get the feeling that he might try the same thing if I do confront him(I.e, pretend like I'm forcing him to be my boyfriend, like I did with the fwb and other things) and I want him to come to that decision on his own. Or to tell me no without being scared.
    He's so frustrating. Perhaps it is time to just move on.

  5. #55
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    I want him. I really do. I didn't know if he wanted me, and I was confused by his behavior and didn't want to get hurt, so I tried to maintain a distance--I was also denying my feelings for him because it felt too vulnerable and completely awkward
    I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo." He was telling you everything from the beginning.

    He was giving you literally every signal ever that he wanted you. Like, seriously, it cannot be more painfully obvious even from the first paragraph. He liked you bad--and you knew it from the start, because back in the first couple paragraphs you say, "Hey, I realized I was hot for him too." As soon as you knew you liked him, your attitude should have changed from 'I want to protect my precious unique feelings until I'm satisifed' to 'How do I make this happen so that I don't hurt him nor do I feel vulnerable?'

    At the end of the day, you were SO pre-occupied with looking for excuses for why he invalidated you that you entirely invalidated ALL of the almost desperate moves he was making on you in the attempt to prove to you how assertive and genuine (in his own way) he was trying to be about this. I definitely would not have handled it as well, or as long, as this guy has.. And I don't blame him at all for giving you a dose of your own medicine. You definitely didn't give him ANY reason to believe you cared about him.. so why should he be in such a rush, now that you've been vulnerable, to say, "Oh, hey, let me assure you so much that you mean a lot to me."

    ... And that's just the NON-Boyfriend step. The levels of communication escalate when you get in a relationship. You need to be more assertive about how you feel, say things that are hard to say, and TAKE things that are difficult to hear from him. I'd be hesitating too, like you or not, to pick you up seeing these obvious attempts to lie and cover up feelings that were obviously reciprocated. You pretty much told him this whole time, "oh you're instincts are lying to you" then said, "Jk, you were right all along I like you and since I know you think I'm cool, can we date now plz?" like NONE of those games ever happened. It can EASILY be taken like "Oh, hey, turns out I was flirting with you all this time but I wasn't sure if I wanted you.. but then I realized I was lonely and you were the only one that actually cared/put up with my shit so I'm settling for you now. Oh, So, take it or leave it, and decide soon because I'm moving the fuck on and getting over this shit if you don't. I don't have time to play games." Ultimatums NEVER end well. Ever. Particularly since you really gave him the run for his money. A caring response enthusiastic about a potential relationship would be, "I know you might need to take time. But I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. and I'd like you to be here with me. So, when you're ready, contact me and we can talk about it."

    Your actions mean something. And those ones you mentioned in your OP put a damper on a potential relationship.

    Complete kudos on you for finally speaking up and realizing he is important to you. Some people never even get the courage to do that much. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh about this, but I've had a similar thing happen--a dude was hot/cold to me, and when I finally decided I needed to move on before I went insane, he confessed his feelings for me truly, and it was too late by then. I couldn't handle it. I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to make something there, and he was too busy being scared of what-ifs to see reality. It's a messy, self-fulfilling prophecy made out of illogical nonsense.

    I dunno the guy, I can't speak at all about whether he will respond or not--But I'd graciously accept a decline/rejection if he doesn't. ... and if you really like him then I hope he's more forgiving and understanding than you are.. because you've got a long road ahead of you if he decides yes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. You say you've only been with one guy before... a lack of experience in relationships can really contribute heavily to this sort of stuff. Open communication is the key to solving a lot of needless drama. And You've got to be the one to initiate it. If it's on your mind, you have the responsibility to say it. Because what you don't say holds just as many consequences as what you do.

    In the mean time, I'd look for ways to read other people's languages more.. and understand that people doing things not just like you would like them to does not mean they don't care about you. It's a struggle for several ENFPs, including myself. I have a guy that super cares for me, and even then I feel rejected over the stupidest things that aren't meant to even be the slightest bit rejecting. You just have to grow up, suck it up, and put on your thick skin and just have to trust that people are being genuine--even at the expense that sometimes they aren't and you'll get hurt.
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  6. #56
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo." He was telling you everything from the beginning.

    He was giving you literally every signal ever that he wanted you. Like, seriously, it cannot be more painfully obvious even from the first paragraph. He liked you bad--and you knew it from the start, because back in the first couple paragraphs you say, "Hey, I realized I was hot for him too." As soon as you knew you liked him, your attitude should have changed from 'I want to protect my precious unique feelings until I'm satisifed' to 'How do I make this happen so that I don't hurt him nor do I feel vulnerable?'

    At the end of the day, you were SO pre-occupied with looking for excuses for why he invalidated you that you entirely invalidated ALL of the almost desperate moves he was making on you in the attempt to prove to you how assertive and genuine (in his own way) he was trying to be about this. I definitely would not have handled it as well, or as long, as this guy has.. And I don't blame him at all for giving you a dose of your own medicine. You definitely didn't give him ANY reason to believe you cared about him.. so why should he be in such a rush, now that you've been vulnerable, to say, "Oh, hey, let me assure you so much that you mean a lot to me."

    ... And that's just the NON-Boyfriend step. The levels of communication escalate when you get in a relationship. You need to be more assertive about how you feel, say things that are hard to say, and TAKE things that are difficult to hear from him. I'd be hesitating too, like you or not, to pick you up seeing these obvious attempts to lie and cover up feelings that were obviously reciprocated. You pretty much told him this whole time, "oh you're instincts are lying to you" then said, "Jk, you were right all along I like you and since I know you think I'm cool, can we date now plz?" like NONE of those games ever happened. It can EASILY be taken like "Oh, hey, turns out I was flirting with you all this time but I wasn't sure if I wanted you.. but then I realized I was lonely and you were the only one that actually cared/put up with my shit so I'm settling for you now. Oh, So, take it or leave it, and decide soon because I'm moving the fuck on and getting over this shit if you don't. I don't have time to play games." Ultimatums NEVER end well. Ever. Particularly since you really gave him the run for his money. A caring response enthusiastic about a potential relationship would be, "I know you might need to take time. But I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. and I'd like you to be here with me. So, when you're ready, contact me and we can talk about it."

    Your actions mean something. And those ones you mentioned in your OP put a damper on a potential relationship.

    Complete kudos on you for finally speaking up and realizing he is important to you. Some people never even get the courage to do that much. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh about this, but I've had a similar thing happen--a dude was hot/cold to me, and when I finally decided I needed to move on before I went insane, he confessed his feelings for me truly, and it was too late by then. I couldn't handle it. I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to make something there, and he was too busy being scared of what-ifs to see reality. It's a messy, self-fulfilling prophecy made out of illogical nonsense.

    I dunno the guy, I can't speak at all about whether he will respond or not--But I'd graciously accept a decline/rejection if he doesn't. ... and if you really like him than I hope he's more forgiving and understanding than you are.. because you've got a long road ahead of you if he decides yes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. You say you've only been with one guy before... a lack of experience in relationships can really contribute heavily to this sort of stuff. Open communication is the key to solving a lot of needless drama. And You've got to be the one to initiate it. If it's on your mind, you have the responsibility to say it. Because what you don't say holds just as many consequences as what you do.

    In the mean time, I'd look for ways to read other people's languages more.. and understand that people doing things not just like you would like them to does not mean they don't care about you. It's a struggle for several ENFPs, including myself. I have a guy that super cares for me, and even then I feel rejected over the stupidest things that aren't meant to even be the slightest bit rejecting. You just have to grow up, suck it up, and put on your thick skin and just have to trust that people are being genuine--even at the expense that sometimes they aren't and you'll get hurt.
    Wow... that was pretty deep. I know you had typed all this for rayna, but it still made me contemplate quite a bit about love and all. So, thanks a million.
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  7. #57
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Maaan, this thread is still going on?

    Now this guy is fucking with YOU. How does it feel? Pretty shitty not knowing. Now you know what he felt, and that's probably what he's thinking.

    When it comes to matters of Love I generally try not to give too much advice, just to illuminate the situation because you're going to do what you're going to do. And all people that are in love. I WOULD tell you to STILL let it go, don't wait for him to say "yes" or "no" you're giving him all the power. Guys generally don't respect desperation. Although I'm sure he's getting an ego boost from all this like, "come crawling back eh?" BUT you're going to do what you're going to do, so if a yes or no is what you need for closure (or at least what you say you need) and he still hasn't given it, maybe give him a deadline. Say to him "Look, bitch, either you're into me or not, I fucked up, but now I realize I want you, if you don't want me, then grow a pair and tell me. You have till 1PM, Monday. If I haven't heard from you by then, I'll assume "no" and move on with my life, far fucking away from you. Peace." Or something. Get YOUR woman balls back, girl.
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  8. #58
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    this thread makes me want to start the note campaign, "would you be interested in dating me? circle y or n. maybe=n" this whole situation seems needlessly complicated to be honest.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I mean, yeah, pretty much you let this guy go through all these hoops, get to the end of the race and say "Oh no, you have to go back and do it again. I don't like the way you jumped through the fire without burning yourself." He's got a different language than you, but you were pretty much like, "This is Murica, speak American or gtfo." He was telling you everything from the beginning.

    He was giving you literally every signal ever that he wanted you. Like, seriously, it cannot be more painfully obvious even from the first paragraph. He liked you bad--and you knew it from the start, because back in the first couple paragraphs you say, "Hey, I realized I was hot for him too." As soon as you knew you liked him, your attitude should have changed from 'I want to protect my precious unique feelings until I'm satisifed' to 'How do I make this happen so that I don't hurt him nor do I feel vulnerable?'

    At the end of the day, you were SO pre-occupied with looking for excuses for why he invalidated you that you entirely invalidated ALL of the almost desperate moves he was making on you in the attempt to prove to you how assertive and genuine (in his own way) he was trying to be about this. I definitely would not have handled it as well, or as long, as this guy has.. And I don't blame him at all for giving you a dose of your own medicine. You definitely didn't give him ANY reason to believe you cared about him.. so why should he be in such a rush, now that you've been vulnerable, to say, "Oh, hey, let me assure you so much that you mean a lot to me."

    ... And that's just the NON-Boyfriend step. The levels of communication escalate when you get in a relationship. You need to be more assertive about how you feel, say things that are hard to say, and TAKE things that are difficult to hear from him. I'd be hesitating too, like you or not, to pick you up seeing these obvious attempts to lie and cover up feelings that were obviously reciprocated. You pretty much told him this whole time, "oh you're instincts are lying to you" then said, "Jk, you were right all along I like you and since I know you think I'm cool, can we date now plz?" like NONE of those games ever happened. It can EASILY be taken like "Oh, hey, turns out I was flirting with you all this time but I wasn't sure if I wanted you.. but then I realized I was lonely and you were the only one that actually cared/put up with my shit so I'm settling for you now. Oh, So, take it or leave it, and decide soon because I'm moving the fuck on and getting over this shit if you don't. I don't have time to play games." Ultimatums NEVER end well. Ever. Particularly since you really gave him the run for his money. A caring response enthusiastic about a potential relationship would be, "I know you might need to take time. But I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. and I'd like you to be here with me. So, when you're ready, contact me and we can talk about it."

    Your actions mean something. And those ones you mentioned in your OP put a damper on a potential relationship.

    Complete kudos on you for finally speaking up and realizing he is important to you. Some people never even get the courage to do that much. Sorry if I'm sounding harsh about this, but I've had a similar thing happen--a dude was hot/cold to me, and when I finally decided I needed to move on before I went insane, he confessed his feelings for me truly, and it was too late by then. I couldn't handle it. I spent a lot of time and money and effort trying to make something there, and he was too busy being scared of what-ifs to see reality. It's a messy, self-fulfilling prophecy made out of illogical nonsense.

    I dunno the guy, I can't speak at all about whether he will respond or not--But I'd graciously accept a decline/rejection if he doesn't. ... and if you really like him then I hope he's more forgiving and understanding than you are.. because you've got a long road ahead of you if he decides yes. This is just the tip of the iceberg. You say you've only been with one guy before... a lack of experience in relationships can really contribute heavily to this sort of stuff. Open communication is the key to solving a lot of needless drama. And You've got to be the one to initiate it. If it's on your mind, you have the responsibility to say it. Because what you don't say holds just as many consequences as what you do.

    In the mean time, I'd look for ways to read other people's languages more.. and understand that people doing things not just like you would like them to does not mean they don't care about you. It's a struggle for several ENFPs, including myself. I have a guy that super cares for me, and even then I feel rejected over the stupidest things that aren't meant to even be the slightest bit rejecting. You just have to grow up, suck it up, and put on your thick skin and just have to trust that people are being genuine--even at the expense that sometimes they aren't and you'll get hurt.
    It wasn't an ultimatum, not really anyway. I didn't post the whole letter on here just segments but I had let him know within the letter that it was hurting too bad to pretend to be his friend or fwb when i knew my feelings were beyond that and that I wanted more. So I basically said I couldn't continue it. It's fake to pretend your okay with something when you aren't. I gave him the option to either tell me he does not want to date me and I will move on and leave him alone and spare us both anymore of the merry go round or he could let me know he's open to dating. If he's not then so be it. But why should I sit there and lie and say I'm okay being a friend or waiting for him to decide when it isn't true?

    Yes I messed up but at the time I didn't understand him. He was different from other men I dated. I didn't get him. I wasn't looking for signs to validate that he didn't want me at first... I knew he liked me but he was too intense and stalked me and I was creeped out, I didn't know how to handle it. Dude googled my address and would take photos of me when I wasn't aware he was around and send them to me. He was always by my desk and was very creepy about it. He even looked up a phone number of a guy that had called me and was able to tell me what county that guy lived.
    It was creepy because he only saw the phone number for a second.
    It made me uncomfortable.
    I didn't start thinking he didnt like me, or looking for signs of rejection until i sensed distance... It's a normal reaction that when someone pulls away you assume and look for reasons why. That is probably the only times when I was busy trying to proved to myself that he did not want me, so that I would get over him.
    I didn't know that he was an intj and that the aloofness was a normal thing. I have a terrible time reading people, I admit it. I suck at dating. Because I was in 2 ltrs and never really dated, just immediately went into relationships and both guys were aggressive and easy for me to read because they were verbal about things. The intj is not... And when he was it was always cryptic or awkward.
    Even now I still can't read him I just put two and two together a week ago and realized that the times we had hooked up, he was irritated when I tried to leave right away instead of spending the night. I thought he was being rude for how awkward he would be when I would say I was leaving and I thought he was just being polite by saying that I could sleep over or by asking me if I wanted to wear his clothes(sweats and t-shirt) I turned down both because I didn't think at the time. But he never spoke up. He won't ever call me out or say anything so how am I suppose to know?
    And since he isn't very verbal and direct unless I corner him, I'm sort of left assuming things... Oan, he did once tell me that I'm always in my own bubble assuming things and that he just let's me. And that's the problem if he doesn't speak up then how am I supposed to know things? I can't read his mind?
    For the record I am very direct these days with him, hence the letter. So speaking up has not been a problem lately. However it's onesided. I'm the only one speaking up.
    That being said I get what your saying. I messed up. I can't expect for him to come running back to me after I messed up as much as I did. And I'm okay with that but why not just say "no I don't want to be your bf" and leave it at that. I would respect and understand that more than plain ignoring it.
    I'm generally good at reading people under normal circumstances, btw. But in this situation I plain sucked. But now I know if I do ever date an intj again how to approach it differently. It's a learning experience. I just learned a bit too late.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Maaan, this thread is still going on?

    Now this guy is fucking with YOU. How does it feel? Pretty shitty not knowing. Now you know what he felt, and that's probably what he's thinking.

    When it comes to matters of Love I generally try not to give too much advice, just to illuminate the situation because you're going to do what you're going to do. And all people that are in love. I WOULD tell you to STILL let it go, don't wait for him to say "yes" or "no" you're giving him all the power. Guys generally don't respect desperation. Although I'm sure he's getting an ego boost from all this like, "come crawling back eh?" BUT you're going to do what you're going to do, so if a yes or no is what you need for closure (or at least what you say you need) and he still hasn't given it, maybe give him a deadline. Say to him "Look, bitch, either you're into me or not, I fucked up, but now I realize I want you, if you don't want me, then grow a pair and tell me. You have till 1PM, Monday. If I haven't heard from you by then, I'll assume "no" and move on with my life, far fucking away from you. Peace." Or something. Get YOUR woman balls back, girl.
    I haven't came crawling back. I haven't even sent him the bday card. Believe me I've thought about it, but at the end of the day my ego is not letting me... It feels overly pathetic to contact him after I sent that letter(which was also pathetic) and I can't seem to let myself do anything else. It's a pride thing at this point. So I can't even send him another message...

    The thing is if he said no, I would be hurt for a bit but understand and respect it. All i wanted was a yes or no.

    Thankfully he does not know what I'm thinking either since neither one of us has contacted the other. But this is the longest we've went without talking (beyond the time when I cut him off earlier in the year). As time move on the more I'm starting to realize he probably isn't going to respond. I find it amusing in a way but also am pissed off because all he had to say was "no I don't want to be your bf bitch your crazy lol" . Him ignoring it is a bruise to my ego and my feelz. Eventually I will get over it.

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