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  1. #191
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Who said alpha male...don't put words in my mouth. A real man treats a woman good, takes care of her(and I don't mean working long hours . I worked 8-9 hours a day to make sure I spend time with both my son and whoever I am dating
    Hey Poki,

    Just a quick well, update I guess.
    I know we've had some sort of argument a few months back.

    Looking back I may have been over aggressive on this one.

    To put it plainly I was offended by your applying universals to your own choices. Though I do understand of course what you meant.
    I tend to get ticked off when people say 'disguting' for something that disgusts them or 'real man' to define what they want to be.

    I know women like protectors and all that stuff, it's kinda biological anthropology/life experience 101.
    However I don't think that gives anyone the right to state that somehow makes other men inferior.

    Let's face it, women are often not subjected to this sort of things.
    Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

    I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

    Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
    Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)

    In summary: It's my opinion that assigning belittling tags to a large number of other people of your own gender is certainly not going to resolve anything
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Hey Poki,

    Just a quick well, update I guess.
    I know we've had some sort of argument a few months back.

    Looking back I may have been over aggressive on this one.

    To put it plainly I was offended by your applying universals to your own choices. Though I do understand of course what you meant.
    I tend to get ticked off when people say 'disguting' for something that disgusts them or 'real man' to define what they want to be.

    I know women like protectors and all that stuff, it's kinda biological anthropology/life experience 101.
    However I don't think that gives anyone the right to state that somehow makes other men inferior.

    Let's face it, women are often not subjected to this sort of things.
    Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

    I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

    Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
    Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)

    In summary: It's my opinion that assigning belittling tags to a large number of other people of your own gender is certainly not going to resolve anything
    Agree, I have very high standards for men, lesser for women, but still have standards. They actually revolve around caring, loving, helping, time, etc. I guess what it comes down to for me is that a real man puts the woman first and a real woman puts the man first.

    I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.

    I am just frustrated with alot of men because they put themselves first and you should put the woman first, I see alot of women who put men first and don't get the same. It's all a perception thing based on what I see. Not all men are like this. One of my good friends found an awesome guy. He doesn't make much money, he doesn't know how to use tools, he doesn't really match the "typical guy" but he treats her with respect, kindness, caring, loving, etc. To me that is a real man. He tries his hardest to make sure every minute both are not at work he is with her because he works strange hours. She is the same way as he is.

    While I may speak harshly about men in general, I look at each man for what he does based on the woman he is with. I try not to judge an individual man on real vs not without taking the woman into consideration in regard to relationships. I try to generalize...a real man puts forth the effort, now the direction of effort depends on the woman he is with. I hold her to the same standards.

    Hope this doesn't offend you. I would rather change the image of what a real man is because it got screwed up along the way and seems to revolve around "its all about me" because that means I am strong and in control.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #193
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Agree, I have very high standards for men, lesser for women, but still have standards. They actually revolve around caring, loving, helping, time, etc. I guess what it comes down to for me is that a real man puts the woman first and a real woman puts the man first.

    I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.

    I am just frustrated with alot of men because they put themselves first and you should put the woman first, I see alot of women who put men first and don't get the same. It's all a perception thing based on what I see. Not all men are like this. One of my good friends found an awesome guy. He doesn't make much money, he doesn't know how to use tools, he doesn't really match the "typical guy" but he treats her with respect, kindness, caring, loving, etc. To me that is a real man. He tries his hardest to make sure every minute both are not at work he is with her because he works strange hours. She is the same way as he is.

    While I may speak harshly about men in general, I look at each man for what he does based on the woman he is with. I try not to judge an individual man on real vs not without taking the woman into consideration in regard to relationships. I try to generalize...a real man puts forth the effort, now the direction of effort depends on the woman he is with. I hold her to the same standards.

    Hope this doesn't offend you. I would rather change the image of what a real man is because it got screwed up along the way and seems to revolve around "its all about me" because that means I am strong and in control.
    txh for the answer, im going out now. will answer later
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #194
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Why is it ok to call a man a 'fake' man while calling a woman the same is kinda akin to committing thought crime and being a horrible monster?

    I do believe that men are subjected to quite alot of social pressure, while it's nothing to cry or write home about it's not helping.

    Nowadays there's a real trend of guys who don't want to marry for example. Why is that?
    Because they don't see the benefits in it: traditional gender roles, still very much alive despite what the thought police wants us to believe compounded with (the positive) changes in women's rights in the 20th century mean that nowadays while a guy is still expected to be the breadwinner (it's generally seen as optional for women - ie: noone will call a woman a loser and a 'fake woman' if she prefers to watch tv at home and cook meals rather than work 70 hours a week -- The opposite is not true, a man will be stigmatized the vast majority of the time for making the same choice)
    This social pressure on men has been even slower to change than the social pressure on women. But then women won't be free of these constraints until men are as well. My brother-in-law ran afoul of exactly what you describe. His wife supported him through a lengthy period of unemployment and then temporary disability, and many in the family looked down on him for being lazy and not pulling his weight. Had the situations been reversed, no one would have thought anything of it. This needs to change so that, as Poki writes, each couple is free to do what makes sense for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    I don't follow the standard beliefs in what a mans role is. That is between 2 people. I am all for men being what's known as a "house wife" and a woman who is the bread winner. Aside from that my standards for a man is he will be strong...not physically...but mentally, meaning he will do what needs to be done and not be trapped by "social" standards. If the woman has a hard day what I consider a real man will cook and clean and such to help her out, despite that being "womanly". That is just my opinion though. I just go through life and look at how most men treat women and I am disgusted because it's like they are trying to uphold this image of what a man is and to me the image is crap because it belittles women. The image of a man should not belittle women nor should the image of a woman belittle men.
    Exactly.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #195
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    I think enfp turns me off.

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