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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    A *real* man sleeps with the woman he dates, and he dates the women he sleeps with. And when a *real* man dates a woman, he sees and builds his future with her.

    I don't care how many cabinets or houses a man can fix for me, or how many rounds of sex every night he gives me for me to see him as a "real" man, because a man who isn't mine or doesn't want to be mine isn't *real*.
    So a real man isn't a real man until he finds that right person? Let me change who I am because what's the point...I am who I am, I judge how i am doing by those around me and how they respond. I create the world around me and enjoy the world I create. U don't see me hitching or crying about women and you don't see them bitching and crying about me. I will fellow my path of what I believe a real man to be and try to be that person.

    Edit: I get 99% positive reactions about who I am from women I date and those I don't date. What I write and say may have holes and logic flaws, but reality speaks differently. I guess that's the difference between "theory and paper" vs "reality . I go by reality
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    I've been in a weird hot and cold situation with an INTJ for almost a year now. I'm an ENFP. We met through work. In the beginning he was very intense, there was never a doubt in my mind that he liked me, but his intensity was overwhelming and unfortunately I pushed him away a ton. Once he started to distance himself, months down the road, is around the time that I realized I really liked him, so now I was "hot" and he was lukewarm. Because of his lukewarm demeanor, I assumed he no longer liked me, and eventually cut contact with him temporarily(about 2.5 months). I didn't do it without letting him know why I was--and he did at first try to stop it, i.e. doing surprise pop-up visits to my department to see me, texting me cryptic messages about how much he accepted me, etc. But eventually he got the clue and we ceased contact. I reached back out to him, months down the road, when I felt "over" him, in the attempt to be his friend. But when we resumed talking, he acted as if there had never been that time away from each other, and as if we had still liked each other. It was bizarre. He was "hot" again too, he told me that he liked me(where earlier in the year he was unable to verbalize it), and even asked me to exclusively date him(as in be his gf) where as earlier that year when I had brought that up, he seemed to need "time" to think about it, so I had dropped it. In other words, it was like he liked more, now that time had passed. In any case, I was skeptical and did not know he was an INTJ, so I didn't take it seriously. I pushed him away, and tried to keep things friendly. And eventually--after he was very persistant(asking me to hang out constantly, texting me a lot, letting me know how much he wanted me etc) just like before, he gave up because I kept declining him. And since then, there has been that lukewarm demeanor again, and ironically it happened around the time where I realized that I felt deeply for him again.

    What makes things more complicated, is that despite his lukewarm demeanor, and me feeling as if he no longer cares about me, there have been some new changes to our relationship. First, the entire time we have known each other, I always felt like he was asexual--as in he never seemed sexually into me, but when we resumed talking back in April, he started to make comments about my body(sexual ones) and I had started to have sexual discussions with him. I let him know that it had bothered me, that he never kissed me, etc. He told me that it was more complicated than that, but didn't elaborate. He is not a ONS, or FWB guy, but has had them before in his college days. In any case I asked him if we consider being my sex buddy, because I have not had sex in two years and I liked him(I've only been with one other guy). He agreed. But despite agreeing to it, it took a while, for it to actually happen--I had to keep getting on him about it. And then one night we finally hooked up--it was around that very night, that we also kissed for the first time, cuddled, etc, he even talked about feelings, and tried to get me to confess how much I felt for him(I did not). That was back in August. Unfortunately after that time, despite how much I felt, because I still did not know how he felt, I approached the relationship(or whatever it was) as if it were only about sex, and approached him in that way, and he did not appreciate it and let me know. He stopped talking to me, and gave me the silent treatment, until I apologized and then told him that my feelings were deeper than what I had let on(I did this by text). He responded by inviting me to a concert that week, as his date, and seemed very excited about having me go. However at the last minute, things happened, and I had to cancel. Unfortunately in the past I've been known to be flakey with him, canceling a lot, or declining invitations, and the nature of our relationship has always been distant(for instance I don't contact him on the weekends, or see him on the weekends, and he knows this and has made jokes about it, but I could tell it bothers him) so me flaking out this time, seemed to be the straw that broke the camels back.

    Since then, he has been very very distant. Where, since this summer(when he stopped being hot after I pushed him away) he has not been as responsive to my texting and to my attempts to hang out, he has still at certain points made an effort to text me, to see me, etc, even if it meant me having to constantly bug him about it. And when we see each other, despite how desperate I felt, he was always kind, and seemed very happy to see me, and spend time with me, despite a few minor things... In any case, since the concert that I flaked on, he has become extremely distant, to the point where he doesn't even respond to my texts, or my declarations of feelings(I don't think he believes it to be genuine anymore) or any attempts to hang out. It got to the point, where two weeks ago, I finally confronted him and asked him if he would like me to stop contacting him, I said I noticed that he did not respond to any texts I had sent him over the last couple of weeks, or my attempts to hang out, or my revelation of how I felt for him, and that I appreciate directness and that if he would like to no longer talk than to let me know. He did not respond at first, but finally the next morning he sent me a message that said "No I don't want you to leave me alone". I said "ok... But if you do ever want space, then let me know, I respect boundaries". He did not respond. A few days later, he invited me over. When I came over, things seemed fine--he asked me what I had been doing the last few weekends(with a smile on his face, because again we don't communicate or see each other over the weekends) and when I tried to answer, he listened at first but then didn't. It felt almost like a test. There were other things that happened that felt that way too. In any case, while watching a movie, he became very physically affectionate, laying on me, and cuddling and then we eventually did stuff. Afterwards, he seemed sleepy(he was falling asleep) so I asked him if he would like to go to sleep, so that I could leave. And he shook his head no. But he looked so sleepy. I kept asking him and he kept shaking his head. At one point, he mumbled under his breath, "If you want, you can spend the night." but I thought he was just trying to be polite. In any case, I eventually told him I was going to let him go to sleep and that I was going home. He seemed surprised and said "Oh your going home?"

    And I said, "Yes." And he walked me out to the door, and told me to call him the next day. After that situation, I texted him and we talked casually the next day and, then the day after that day, we talked again and things were good--we talked about a show we both liked. But then I didn't contact him for about 4 days, and when I did reach out finally it was very obvious he was ignoring me. This time, as opposed to confronting him about it and asking for an explanation, I said "f*** it" and decided that it was time to come clean and be honest. I know that at this point, I have kept him at a distance, played a lot of games, made things seem like they were just about sex, and been sporadic with my communication and in the times we've hung out, I've downplayed my feelings for him everytime he's confronted me in person, and in texts I'll send him cutesy love messages, but I don't believe he takes them seriously since I don't do things "action-wise" to support the texts. He even told me one time, that all I do is talk.

    This time, I decided to be honest. I wrote him a 4 page email, that addressed everything... I was completely honest, authentic, about everything, about why I did what I did, my feelings for him, what I wanted from him(since I had never been clear with that, no matter how many times he gave me space to tell him what I wanted) and a host of other things. In the end of the letter I let him know that I could not continue with things as they are. And that I wanted him to be my boyfriend(that's what I wanted), but that if it wasn't what he wanted, I understood, but that I would move on. I told him that because I know it's a lot to take in, that I wanted him to take his time, and let me know only once he's had time to think about it and come to a decision. I said a few weeks is fine, if that's what he needs, but to please not leave me hanging for over a month, without any insight on to his thoughts. I sent it to the email on his linkedin account. And texted him to let him know that I sent the email to him. He did not respond to my text, but I know he saw it. That was last week when I sent him the email. Since then, he has not responded. I told myself that I did tell him, to take his time before responding... But I logged in to facebook today, and saw that he had updated his picture a few days ago, and was liking other peoples statuses, and that he is going to some get together this weekend, and it made me feel bad... Like he doesn't care at all about what I wrote(which was actually straight from the heart this time and extremely honest about everything). I feel stupid and embarrassed for revealing my feelings for him finally and being so honest, only to have him ignore me, and go about his life. I don't know if he's read the email, what he thinks, etc.

    I'm wondering now if he's just going to ignore me forever... What should I do? Just continue to give him space, or can I assume that he's done with me? The only reason I have not done the latter, is that two weeks ago, he had told me that he didn't want me to leave him alone, so obviously there's a part of him that has not shut me out, but why ignore my email then? He had revealed to me, before the first time we had sex, that I didn't fight for him(in regards to when he was acting lukewarm earlier in the year and I decided to stop talking to him). Is that what he wants? The email for me is fighting for him--I'm just not sure anymore.
    Back to op...everyone is different. Been in similiar situation and for me it leads to FWB and nothing more. it's one of this, break my heart and it closes off. As long as you get along, have chemistry, etc. Then the only distance I really create is if I feel trapped because it more then hen FWB for the other person and at that point i start to distance myself. If it is just sex I have to cut then it is that while we can still hang out. At this point I have already started looking for someone else. Not for FWB, but to see where things go. FWB are just those that don't extend past friendship for one reason or another and they become sexual. Not all my friends who are women are FWB, but I still treat them the same and do the same things I do for someone who is a FWB.
    Im out, its been fun

  3. #173
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    FwBs. That's like, a high school term. Maybe college.

    There's very few labels I will put on a relationship. Girlfriend and Wife. Maybe fuck buddy. And the fb has to be well defined, like someone who you don't see that much, but every once in a while one of you gives the other a booty call. So not so much intimacy that emotional attachments form on either side.

    If it's a FwB, the relationship is probably too complicated, or atypical to define. Don't focus so much on labels.

    The definition is going to be interpreted differently by both parties, eventually.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  4. #174
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    Honestly, my take is that women go through life so unsatisfied that a half ass man would cause them to fall head over heels. We need more REAL men in this world. They have been trained to rationalize, look the other way when it comes to truly happy, and settle
    I think there's a lot of truth here.

    I think you can define a real man, or at least some things. A provider, a protector, a lover. Women want to feel loved/wanted, safe, and comfortable, among other things.

    Humans are animals, we're not special, we just have opposable thumbs and can build tools, plus we're pretty smart. A computer is pretty much a really advanced stick.

    Sure these are "generalizations" but no different than saying "cats will hunt animals/laser dots that run from them." It's just part of their nature. Some cats are fat and lazy.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  5. #175
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poki View Post
    I was married, I am not anymore because I got tired of bitchin and it made me irritable and that was not fair to my son. She agreed to marriage counseling when I was to far gone with the marriage. I want more then she could offer me. I am a touch person and she isn't. I died inside because of it also. Sol I divorced lookjng for someone that worked better with me. She is just a bitchy person, she still bends over backwards for me if I need it, I just don't feel like listening to the bitching that goes along with it. I have a lot of other women around me that will do the same thing without bitching.

    I am not married because I know what I want and Havnt found it yet. Hence why I end up in FWB. I am not so desperate to jump into marriage just because a woman treats me good, I get that from most. I get food cooked for me, I get sex whenever I want, I get a lot of things. Hell I had a FWB that bought me precooked food and sent to my house because it was a long distance FWB and she couldn't cook for me. She bought me most of my kitchen ware and I didn't ask for any of it. I really appreciate it though.
    So you're a self-obsessed immature manchild (pleonasm for empathis)then. Nice. Ok that explains why i couldnt understand your self agrandizing vision of a real man.

    Your sad attempts to assert dominance are cute though.
    Lets agree to disagree.
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  6. #176
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    Wow... The thread really went off topic... No comment on the fwb discussion other than it is not for me, and it was a terrible idea to ask the intj to be my fwb in the first place. I hurt him by making it just about sex, and he got me back the last time he saw me by treating me the way he did. It really hurt our "friendship" like a lot... In any case it was his birthday on Wednesday. I mailed him a belated bday card this morning, just a silly platonic one. No feelz attached. I don't expect a response. Honestly I'm probably going to reach out to him, sometime soon and see if he would be willing to meet with me in person.

    But going back to the fwb thing... It works for some, not for others. Have a Good Friday everyone!!!

  7. #177
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    So you're a self-obsessed immature manchild (pleonasm for empathis)then. Nice. Ok that explains why i couldnt understand your self agrandizing vision of a real man.

    Your sad attempts to assert dominance are cute though.
    Lets agree to disagree.
    Dude, what's your problem with the condescension. @Poki is at least being honest. You're in no position to judge or resort to name calling. What's next, you gonna call me a doodoo head?
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    So you're a self-obsessed immature manchild (pleonasm for empathis)then. Nice. Ok that explains why i couldnt understand your self agrandizing vision of a real man.

    Your sad attempts to assert dominance are cute though.
    Lets agree to disagree.
    LMAO...thats a first...I really dont care, lets agree to disagree, I usually do with other mens vision of what a "real" man is. Nothing new. Hell your statement of "Geh where are the real women who'll cook my meals, be my sex toys and not whine about me working 15h a day to pay for their shoes and other toys that keep them occupied while im out being a real man?" told me alot about your vision and makes me feel bad for any man that gets stuck in that vission because its a perpetual cycle if two people who do nothing but bitch about what "they" do for the relationship. I got tired of that with my ex because I dont keep track of what I have done so when we went down the path I couldnt argue. But her bitching to everyone else about me made her look like an idiot when the other person met me.

    I dont really care about dominance...wait...that makes me not a man doesnt it...LOL
    Im out, its been fun

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    FwBs. That's like, a high school term. Maybe college.

    There's very few labels I will put on a relationship. Girlfriend and Wife. Maybe fuck buddy. And the fb has to be well defined, like someone who you don't see that much, but every once in a while one of you gives the other a booty call. So not so much intimacy that emotional attachments form on either side.

    If it's a FwB, the relationship is probably too complicated, or atypical to define. Don't focus so much on labels.

    The definition is going to be interpreted differently by both parties, eventually.
    A friend label is complicated on its own and can go from aquintance to best friend even to the person your married to. I dont have alot of friends by choice, I blow alot of people off and dont ever reach the aquaintance phase. The ones I have know I am good with FWB, I dont push it or even suggest it, its just that as we talk about the past it gets brought up and thats about as far as it goes with me pushing things.

    For me a FWB can form emotional attachments, but it doesnt mean I want to marry the person. It is usually love and care, but not in love. Girlfriend has a means to an end...marriage. So once marriage is out of the question, I move to either friends or part ways, I always prefer to move to friends with or without benefits. Its when the other person starts to fall in-love that will make me start distancing myself until a balance is found.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #180
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I think you can define a real man, or at least some things. A provider, a protector, a lover. Women want to feel loved/wanted, safe, and comfortable, among other things.
    The highlighted apply just as well to women, and the underscored just as well to men. We are all just as human as those laser-chasing cats are feline.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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