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  1. #131
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    How am I trying so hard? I sent him the letter. Since then I've done nothing.
    You have been beating yourself up in this thread ever since, second-guessing everything you said and did in this relationship, bending over backwards to try to understand everything HE said and did. it is fine - often necessary - to conduct a thorough analysis in support of a significant decision, or to learn from one's mistakes, but spinning one's wheels in endless recriminations is not productive.

    Find something else to take your mind off all this until the end of the month, then move on with this, one way or another.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  2. #132
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Yeah, I know.
    It's not cool, but don't make a trip to the psychiatrist for PTSD.

    Boys will do this, mature men will not. And that's not even true, just get one drunk. However, even in my drunkest moments with a girl, I can tell if she's not down. Or even sober. I'm not going to ram her hand (or head, for that matter) on mr. winky, but I might gently guide it there if there's no resistance. Kind of a fine line, and your INTJ crossed it, but don't buy a rape horn yet.

    But yes, pretty much everything said so far I agree with (I can't believe I'm still following this thread, but it's pretty intriguing).

    You and this guy SUCK at communicating.

    If a friend that I've been sleeping with is over and in my bed, fucking shit, I'm going to expect some booty. But I'm not going to force it. So if I say "I wanna fuck" well that's some pretty good communication and often leads to fucking.

    If it doesn't, or I get a "I just can't anymore, I just wanna lay here with you" (even though you text me sexually loaded shit, kiss me on the lips as soon as you walk in my door) then my ass can take a hint, and I'll go sleep on the sofa, and kick her out the next day, and if it's sex I want and have communicated, then she'll stay kicked out. And ignored.

    I'm not saying you were a that night between you two, but in the above situation, that's what's called a Cocktease. And it's goddamn infuriating.

    Guys will throw that word around, but sometimes it's true. And a lot of the times, the girl doesn't know she's doing it, or more accurately, she has mixed feelings. She sexts when she's drunk and kisses you, but when it's go time, she changes her mind. THAT'S not cool either. Me no likey blue balls.

    In fact, me no likey blue balls so much that it will give me more than enough frustration to totally end what was once a sexual relationship. "But I just wanna be friends and cuddle!!" Ok, good to know, but I'm horny, now gtfo.

    In your situation, he didn't take the hint (you probably should have verbally told him) and did emotionally manipulate you. That's a weak ass punk move. But I do understand the sexual frustration.


    edit: and yes, men can be vaginateases too.
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    It's not cool, but don't make a trip to the psychiatrist for PTSD.

    Boys will do this, mature men will not. And that's not even true, just get one drunk. However, even in my drunkest moments with a girl, I can tell if she's not down. Or even sober. I'm not going to ram her hand (or head, for that matter) on mr. winky, but I might gently guide it there if there's no resistance. Kind of a fine line, and your INTJ crossed it, but don't buy a rape horn yet.

    But yes, pretty much everything said so far I agree with (I can't believe I'm still following this thread, but it's pretty intriguing).

    You and this guy SUCK at communicating.

    If a friend that I've been sleeping with is over and in my bed, fucking shit, I'm going to expect some booty. But I'm not going to force it. So if I say "I wanna fuck" well that's some pretty good communication and often leads to fucking.

    If it doesn't, or I get a "I just can't anymore, I just wanna lay here with you" (even though you text me sexually loaded shit, kiss me on the lips as soon as you walk in my door) then my ass can take a hint, and I'll go sleep on the sofa, and kick her out the next day, and if it's sex I want and have communicated, then she'll stay kicked out. And ignored.

    I'm not saying you were a that night between you two, but in the above situation, that's what's called a Cocktease. And it's goddamn infuriating.

    Guys will throw that word around, but sometimes it's true. And a lot of the times, the girl doesn't know she's doing it, or more accurately, she has mixed feelings. She sexts when she's drunk and kisses you, but when it's go time, she changes her mind. THAT'S not cool either. Me no likey blue balls.

    In fact, me no likey blue balls so much that it will give me more than enough frustration to totally end what was once a sexual relationship. "But I just wanna be friends and cuddle!!" Ok, good to know, but I'm horny, now gtfo.

    In your situation, he didn't take the hint (you probably should have verbally told him) and did emotionally manipulate you. That's a weak ass punk move. But I do understand the sexual frustration.


    edit: and yes, men can be vaginateases too.

    Well, in my defense, it wasn't as you described at all. Prior that incident, I had not sent him any sexual text messages, or any indications that I wanted to have sex with him. I did send him a text when I confronted him about his distance, saying that "although I was disappointed that he had ended the FWB before it even began, that I respect his wishes and have no problem with it, because I respect boundaries as long as they are clearly defined". And then I went off on him, for being so vague, and asked him if he wanted me to stop contacting him. And that was what led him to say that he didn't want me to leave him alone. Which didn't even address the question--telling me "no I don't want you to leave me alone", does not answer the question about his distance and about whether he would like me to stop texting him.

    But because he had lashed out on me, when I had tried to ask if we could meet up and have sex again(amongst other things), I respected his wishes and I did NOT bring it up again. So on the night that I saw him, last, there was no teasing. When I came over, I had assumed it was just us hanging out. When he laid on me, I was shocked because I didn't understand why he was laying on me, especially since just the week before he had been very distant, and non-responsive to texts. So I just kind of sat there frozen and he told me I wasn't being comfortable with him. And then he reclined my chair back next to him, so that I was laying against him, and that is when he started rubbing on my thighs. And I pushed him away because it didn't even dawn on me, that he was rubbing them because he was turned on. I wasn't trying to tease at all.. I mean I know now that he was turned on, and that was why he was frustrated--for instance the pitch of his voice had changed, and he put his phone on his lap and moved away from me, he kept giving me frustrated looks, and everytime I shifted he would look over at me. He looked really uncomfortable the whole time. But in that moment where I had pushed him away, I didn't do it with the intent to be a tease or to be mean. He didn't speak up though.

    He didn't ram my hands down, it was more of a glide, but it still felt like an awkward reaction to a kiss on the forehead--I mean who does that? And I went along with it, and did things with him anyway and he seemed better afterwards but I felt cheap. In any case, I didn't understand why he went off on me when I tried to keep things sexual between us--the weeks before--only to initiate sex when I came over and get frustrated when I didn't catch on. He was the one who told me not to bring up sex again, and all this other stuff. It was confusing. And perhaps I should have communicated that to him and expressed that his behavior didn't make sense to me. But by that point I was ready to leave.

    Honestly, it's neither here or there though. Today was the first day, where the majority of the day I didn't even think about him, I was focused on other things. I met a few guys, when I was out(looking like what I felt was crap)--which might be a sign that perhaps I really should move on. I just don't think he's going to respond ever. And the communication between us is horrible, and neither one of us ever really speaks up--I do sometimes, but he just won't. No clue why. But I know deep down that he isn't going to respond by my timeline, lol. Oh well.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You have been beating yourself up in this thread ever since, second-guessing everything you said and did in this relationship, bending over backwards to try to understand everything HE said and did. it is fine - often necessary - to conduct a thorough analysis in support of a significant decision, or to learn from one's mistakes, but spinning one's wheels in endless recriminations is not productive.

    Find something else to take your mind off all this until the end of the month, then move on with this, one way or another.
    Your so right. I was thinking about that this morning, too, which is why I had tried to focus on other things. I'm going to keep myself distracted as best as I can(despite the hang up lol) and I've actually changed my mind-if no word by the end of the month, I think I'm just going to date someone else--rebounding is never good, but seems like the best option to keep myself from thinking too much about him.

  5. #135
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Well, in my defense
    Weeelllll, to be more clear, that was a personal story that I probably should have told in the first tense, haha.

    It was similar to his in a lot of ways.

    That's great that you met some guys. Even if it doesn't go anywhere. Get out there, and don't sit at home obsessing.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #136
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    When in love, or so called "love" craze, people tend to look at things through magnifying glass too often and not enough taking a step back to look at how all pieces make the big picture.

    You cannot *give* anybody *time* to think. You are extending your own time to hang on to a hope, and hold somebody accountable for it. I completely sympathize because I've been there.
    To be honest, making up one's mind about this kind of matter before the other one walks away is just like tossing the coin, the second the coin is about to drop, one will find oneself wanting for one particular side is up. Some people can defend, "oh relationships are not like coin tossing", but to be very honest and in attempt to simplify most bullsh, if one cannot make up their mind, they lean towards letting you go. Sadly and unfortunately, in that scenario, the one who is more infatuated and is being let go tends to hold on to the part that the other person is "not sure", "uncertain". Instead of focusing on the 55% I-cannot-do-this, these tormented folks build their lives around the 45% I-might-be-able-to-do-this, either of yourself or theirs.
    The scale might change in your favor, but not by staring at it and being consumed by the whole thing.

    When I said you tried so hard, I meant what's going on inside your head and heart, like Coriolis have explained.
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  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    You cannot *give* anybody *time* to think. You are extending your own time to hang on to a hope, and hold somebody accountable for it. I completely sympathize because I've been there.
    Instead of focusing on the 55% I-cannot-do-this, these tormented folks build their lives around the 45% I-might-be-able-to-do-this.
    This is awesome advice. Please take it.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    When in love, or so called "love" craze, people tend to look at things through magnifying glass too often and not enough taking a step back to look at how all pieces make the big picture.

    You cannot *give* anybody *time* to think. You are extending your own time to hang on to a hope, and hold somebody accountable for it. I completely sympathize because I've been there.
    To be honest, making up one's mind about this kind of matter before the other one walks away is just like tossing the coin, the second the coin is about to drop, one will find oneself wanting for one particular side is up. Some people can defend, "oh relationships are not like coin tossing", but to be very honest and in attempt to simplify most bullsh, if one cannot make up their mind, they lean towards letting you go. Sadly and unfortunately, in that scenario, the one who is more infatuated and is being let go tends to hold on to the part that the other person is "not sure", "uncertain". Instead of focusing on the 55% I-cannot-do-this, these tormented folks build their lives around the 45% I-might-be-able-to-do-this, either of yourself or theirs.
    The scale might change in your favor, but not by staring at it and being consumed by the whole thing.

    When I said you tried so hard, I meant what's going on inside your head and heart, like Coriolis have explained.
    I don't get your second paragraph. Or at least I do, but I think you misunderstand me. I'm not holding on to a hope that he is taking his time because he is uncertain or not sure. Like I said early on, I do believe that he knows exactly what it is he wants or doesn't want. Me and him have known each other for a year. I believe that he has known what he wants from me or with us by this point. So I'm not holding on to this notion that he is taking his time because he needs time to process. It was a few intjs on here that told me that, but overall knowing what I know about him, while it might be true that he needs some time to decide what he wants to do with the information I gave him, I don't believe that-that alone is why he is taking his time. I think it is deliberate. Again based on the knowledge I have on him. Why is he doing it, deliberately? I don't know. He might not want to hurt my feelings by telling me no, he might be calling my bluff, he might not give a fuck. I don't honestly know. I'm not holding on to hope though that his silence is due to indecision, because I know that he knows what he wants. I honestly expected him to say no right away once I sent him the letter. His non-response however does not cause me to think that he is leaning toward me, or that he is just undecided... I just want to clarify that. I realize that there is a chance he will say yes, a chance he will say no, and a chance he won't say anything at all.
    I'm not infatuated with him, and again it's insulting to be told over and over again by *you* that you basically don't believe my feelings are real and that I'm in a love craze or infatuated with him. So stop. I know your trying to be helpful and I appreciate it but stop assuming that you know how I feel.
    At this point I know this man better than you, so I know that there is a good chance that he will not respond(for many reasons, including him wanting to just let it go). I also know that there is a slimmer chance, based on my history with him, that he might respond but wait until much later before he does.

    I have said all of this over and over again. I'm not holding to hope that he will profess his love for me and date me. I'm only giving him the chance to speak up and say his piece(whether it's yes or no) before I make the decision to move on entirely and close my heart to him.
    It's as much about me getting closure as it is about me giving him the space to consider what I wrote in the letter and respond or not respond accordingly. That is why I said you misunderstand me. You assume that I'm infatuated, that I'm waiting for him based on some misguided hope that he will come back to me and be my boyfriend, or that I'm thinking that his silence means that he needs time. All of this is incorrect.
    I do agree though that letting the situation consume me the way it is, is not healthy. I've already started not caring as much about the outcome. Realizing that there is a possibility that nothing will happen and feeling okay with it. In other words at this point I have no expectations lol.
    In any case I appreciate your advice I know that your just trying to help-even when I've disagreed with you because I don't believe that you know what he is or is not thinking, etc--I do know that you genuinely just want to help.
    Thanks!

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Weeelllll, to be more clear, that was a personal story that I probably should have told in the first tense, haha.

    It was similar to his in a lot of ways.

    That's great that you met some guys. Even if it doesn't go anywhere. Get out there, and don't sit at home obsessing.
    Haha yeah you were pretty graphic, but I understood your story and I have been a cock tease with guys before. But in the case with the intj, while I might have appeared like a tease-his miscommunication to me about sex, and how he reacted weeks before about sex--muddled things. He can't on one hand tell me not to come at him talking about sex, or asking to meet up for sex, and tell me let's just hang out and chill. But on the other hand expect me to have sex with him when I see him, and think I'm a tease because I didn't catch on to his nonverbal horny clues lol. His actions didn't make sense.
    Yours do--you have sex with a girl, you don't tell her not to bring up sex to you, and you verbalize what you want once you catch on that she might not get it. And then and only then do you get frustrated if she doesn't do it. That makes sense and I would be frustrated too.

    And yeah I feel like rebounding is horrible as a concept but it's a good way to focus on all the possibilities that exist outside of the intj. I still care for him obviously but obsessing about it really has not helped me at all lol.

    Thanks!
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    He can't on one hand tell me not to come at him talking about sex, or asking to meet up for sex, and tell me let's just hang out and chill.

    Thanks!
    I mean, even if I have a girlfriend, I don't necessarily expect sex. Maybe she's not in the mood or something, or tired. I'd have to be some kind of royal asshole to expect it or demand it if that's the case. But I also know where we stand overall.

    A cocktease incident is pretty isolated (though one can be an overall cocktease). Like kissing and heavy petting. haha, then just going cold. No beuno.

    Again, poor communication, but you already know that by now.

    And for the record, "Let's just hang out and chill!" is usually "Let's just hang out and chill and bone!" especially if you've already been sleeping together.

    If a girl or boy isn't down for sexy time, and the other is, it's easy to just get upset and not say anything, or hide it. But verbally communicating that takes a bit of maturity. And if it doesn't lead to gettin' it ohhnn, then it may lead to a needed conversation about what's going on.

    I told a girl I had slept with, after making out for a while and it going no where, "What's the deal? I would like to have sexual intercourse" and she said "Well it's that time of the month" and it just so happened to be the "wouldn't you know it" worst timing and I was drunk and said something like "prove it." Wellllllll....that didn't go over well, and I had about 6 unwrapped tampons thrown at my face. It was pretty funny. But I believed her.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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