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  1. #121
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Thank you! Your posts have really helped me. But if someone doesn't feel safe to open up, in the meantime how does one learn to read and understand the other if they don't speak up?

    Like how am I supposed to understand what I'm doing wrong or how to improve if it's not told to me?
    You're welcome.

    If you mean if you guys do get together, then oddly enough, I think you're lucky that you've gone through all of this hell.

    Because when you do talk with him, then you now have this experience to refer to when you bring up how much communication and openness is necessary and important. The proof of what can happen when a couple isn't communicating is right there for him to see, and neither of you are apt to ever forget all of this. When he does inevitably go quiet, because these habits are hard to break (but they are breakable), then just refer to these days. Tell him the relationship is important and you don't want to repeat the same mistakes. If he's INTJ, he should relate to that well. They don't like repeating mistakes. (NTs just don't like that.)

    We'd much rather learn from them.

    And, if he doesn't choose to give it a go, then hey, you've got this experience to refer to in the future no matter who you choose to be with. You know how important communication is now, so you'll be much more aware of when it's needed no matter who you are with and that relationship will be much better for it.

    As for learning to read them, that just takes experience with them. Making them feel safe when they do open up will help make sure that they will open up more easily in the future. Caring, just caring, enough to watch how they are under different circumstances is all it takes to learn when they're probably bothered.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Sorry, but all of this, especially the bolded, is reason for you to not only decide for yourself that you're better off, but RUN while doing it.

    This was complete emotional manipulation at its worst AND treating you like a piece of shit. Not a person at all. There is no excusing this crap no matter what your problems were. He's not a communicator, he's an action taker (in addition to this incident, he stalked you in the beginning and he's punishing you now with active silence), and his actions are selfish because he is. Being with him would be this moment you described here over and over, but worse each time.

    He's not answering you because he couldn't control you. If he does answer you, it's because he thinks you've 'learned your lesson.'

    Chalk this up to experience, and run.
    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    You're welcome.

    If you mean if you guys do get together, then oddly enough, I think you're lucky that you've gone through all of this hell.

    Because when you do talk with him, then you now have this experience to refer to when you bring up how much communication and openness is necessary and important. The proof of what can happen when a couple isn't communicating is right there for him to see, and neither of you are apt to ever forget all of this. When he does inevitably go quiet, because these habits are hard to break (but they are breakable), then just refer to these days. Tell him the relationship is important and you don't want to repeat the same mistakes. If he's INTJ, he should relate to that well. They don't like repeating mistakes. (NTs just don't like that.)

    We'd much rather learn from them.

    And, if he doesn't choose to give it a go, then hey, you've got this experience to refer to in the future no matter who you choose to be with. You know how important communication is now, so you'll be much more aware of when it's needed no matter who you are with and that relationship will be much better for it.

    As for learning to read them, that just takes experience with them. Making them feel safe when they do open up will help make sure that they will open up more easily in the future. Caring, just caring, enough to watch how they are under different circumstances is all it takes to learn when they're probably bothered.
    Thanks so much for your input. I suppose it matters less now since that situation is said and done but at least now I know why he might have been upset with me. After getting to know him I do at least know that the silent treatment= I'm upset with something you did. Especially if he's silent over two consecutive days of me reaching out to him. The cycle usually goes, he ignores me or gives me the silent treatment until he is either ready to talk to me again or until I confront him asking for an explanation, or if I understand what I did wrong before he comes to talk to me, I will reach out and apologize and all well. Ninety percent of the time though Ive had to confront him once he's did the silent treatment in order to figure out what was wrong. There were perhaps few occasions where he came back to me and explained right away what I did. And there were a couple of ocassions where I came to him before he had chance to explain and apologized for what I did, once I realized what it was I did.

    Sadly beyond that cycle--which is IMO a bit unhealthy because I think the silent treatment is wrong to use on someone as a mechanism to punish them--I usually have no way of knowing when he is upset because he never verbalizes it. So just like in that situation I'm left trying to figure out what went wrong.

    At this point I'm becoming more certain that his silence after getting the letter is deliberate. I think that he he going to intentionally withhold a response pass the 1 month mark, since I specifically asked him to not leave me hanging for a month. I thinks he's also testing me during this time frame to see what I do.., will I confront and demand answers like I normally would, will I send another letter, will I just leave him alone, etc. In other words I think it's a mixture of calling my bluff, asserting that he is nfg about my timeline and probably on some level is weighing whether or not he even wants that with me. Or at least this is what I believe based on what i know of him and how his mind works.

    Time will tell I guess. But I will keep everyone updated.
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  3. #123
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    Gosh... It's painful for me to see how much you're trying.
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  4. #124
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    How am I trying so hard? I sent him the letter. Since then I've done nothing. I could see if I was begging and pleading for him to take me back and bombarded him with calls and messages in the process but i haven't... I have a habit of analyzing and trying to understand situations that don't make sense(which is what I'm doing in regards to the intj). So that's the gist of this thread at this point.

    Why is it painful for you to see a stranger try to make sense of something that meant a lot to her? Perhaps objectively you see this as something that is futile-you don't believe he wants me and you don't believe I care about him the way I do. You think I could potentially meet someone much better, have a clean slate and be with someone who has the decency to respond with urgency at the prospect of being exclusive with me.

    Honestly I feel this way as well. I KNOW that there are other guys and that regardless of what happens there will be another guy that might create the same feelings i have for the intj. I myself feel as though its perhaps futile to "wait". But on the other hand I know him. And far more than you do. And i know the interactions and the relationship we shared (which I did not speak about the many positive situations between us and the entire picture, in much detail on here) and thus at the very least i consider myself a bit more knowledgeable about him and me, and whatever could be or could not, than you.

    I do an internal deadline and I'm going to stick to that even if it means that I walk away without closure. I tend to have a difficult time leaving relationships or men that I develop deep feelings for but once I make the final decision to close my heart, it's done. And I walk away for good. Usually months down the road the guy always comes back. But I'm done. When I'm done, I'm done.

    Knowing that about myself and knowing him, I haven't made the decision to leave yet because deep down my instincts are telling me that he isn't done. I want to give him a chance...

    On the other hand, no I have no intention on obsessing about him still, once i hit my internal deadline and no progress or closure has been made.

    If I didn't care as much as I did and if I didn't hurt him as much as I did, then I would have walked away awhile ago.

    Edit: this thread hands down describes why its so difficult for me as an ENFP to let go: [ENFP] ENFPs and Emotional Hang-ups

    Really narrowed down to a tea EXACTLY what I'm going through.

  5. #125
    So she did. small.wonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Ok, so all of your assessments are correct... But the reason I acted like that is because after we hooked up for the first time, I had tried to keep things true to our fwb, and make it about being friends that have sex. I won't get into specifics but I did things to indicate that position and when I did he went off on me and got very angry and told me not to come at him again asking to meet up to have sex. He was so angry with me and I was confused because I thought we were fwbs.

    After a week of not talking, I told him that I was sorry and that my feelings were deeper than that when it came to him and he asked me on a date but I flaked at the last minute because a lot of things happened that day I no longer could go. After that, he was very distant and nontalkative. I assumed he wanted me to finally leave him alone. So that is when I asked him if he wanted me to stop contacting him, and he responded with "no I don't want you to leave me alone".,. I also made the mistake of indicating my disappointment with him(as I saw it) cutting off the fwb. He didn't respond but a few days later he invited me over.
    He is not communicating effectively in any of the above.

    I did not know how to act because I assumed we were not fwbs anymore because of how angry he was when I had tried to make it about sex. So I played it cool. I felt awkward when he was cuddling with me because I didn't understand what was going on between us. I guess he might have gotten aroused because after that he kept rubbing my thighs and trying to pull me close but my thighs are a point of insecurity so I pushed him away. It never dawned on me that be was rubbing them because he wanted sexy time. After that, he moved away from me but kept sighing and he seemed irritable. I didn't get it, I thought he was mad at me but didn't know why, after the movie was over I asked him to sit back next to me, and he was like "I was sitting next to you, you didn't want me to" and I said "fine... But I did" and so I assumed that was why he was mad, so when he came back over and sat next to me, I gave him a kiss on the forehead to show my affection and he grabbed my hand and put it inside of his pants.
    Here neither of you communicated. No wonder it was so weird and push/pull, you were both totally unsure! Why not just come into the situation with, "so, where do we stand now?"-- really, you could have said that at any point in this scenario.

    I did stuff with him anyway but when I left I was fuming because I felt semi-used, and I was confused... Like one minute he gets angry when I make things about sex, on the other hand I felt like he had used me that night. He had told me to call him the following day but because I was upset I did not call him for a couple of days. But when I did and we spoke things seemed fine. Same with the second time when we spoke. That is why I was surprised when a few days later I reached out to him and he ignored me.
    So that's when you call/text him and say, "this is what happened and how I feel. What's going on?" That was no small matter at all, swallowing it is disrespectful to both of you. Communication is vital, even if all you are saying is that you have no idea what's going on. Especially that!

    I understood after that night that either he was upset because I pushed him away when he wanted sexy time(but I did do stuff with him at the end of the night) and he was sick of feeling misunderstood. On the other hand because I felt used, by how aggressive he was sexually, I assumed he was giving me a peice of my own medicine. But because we spoke after that incident, it's too difficult to say whether or not he was truly upset with me about that or not. However I do believe we both are tired of the inconsitency. So I understand that this might be why he started ignoring me, and probably why he is hesitant to respond.
    So many assumptions and mights! I know that kind of mentality is rampant in our culture, but it is not healthy and you do not need to buy into that kind of passive, indirect crap.

    Like I said I would be completely understand if he said no with all this in mind. There were many misunderstandings happening. I suppose that since I've taken myself out of the situation, I've been able to look at things objectively and see where things went wrong... And so I understand more and more why he would not want a relationship, I just want him to say "no".

    Or at least speak up and verbalize when he is upset with me instead of being passive aggressive.
    Woah. Reading things like this whole post kills me, you were both completely not communicating. At all. Misunderstandings are entirely preventable, and solvable even after they've happened, if you nip them in the bud.

    I still hope this works out for you, but can see why it's gone up in flames a bit.
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  6. #126
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post

    Edit: this thread hands down describes why its so difficult for me as an ENFP to let go: [ENFP] ENFPs and Emotional Hang-ups
    I have found beautiful and nourishing love elsewhere, and have been happily married for nearly a decade, a few kids, and my husband is--hands down--the Greatest Thing that has Ever Happened to me. He just doesn't replace the other one.
    I don't even have words.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #127
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    After that, he moved away from me but kept sighing and he seemed irritable. I didn't get it, I thought he was mad at me but didn't know why, after the movie was over I asked him to sit back next to me, and he was like "I was sitting next to you, you didn't want me to" and I said "fine... But I did" and so I assumed that was why he was mad, so when he came back over and sat next to me, I gave him a kiss on the forehead to show my affection and he grabbed my hand and put it inside of his pants.
    For the record. That is NOT cool. Ever ever ever. So so sorry this happened girl.
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by small.wonder View Post
    He is not communicating effectively in any of the above.



    Here neither of you communicated. No wonder it was so weird and push/pull, you were both totally unsure! Why not just come into the situation with, "so, where do we stand now?"-- really, you could have said that at any point in this scenario.



    So that's when you call/text him and say, "this is what happened and how I feel. What's going on?" That was no small matter at all, swallowing it is disrespectful to both of you. Communication is vital, even if all you are saying is that you have no idea what's going on. Especially that!



    So many assumptions and mights! I know that kind of mentality is rampant in our culture, but it is not healthy and you do not need to buy into that kind of passive, indirect crap.



    Woah. Reading things like this whole post kills me, you were both completely not communicating. At all. Misunderstandings are entirely preventable, and solvable even after they've happened, if you nip them in the bud.

    I still hope this works out for you, but can see why it's gone up in flames a bit.

    Heh, I know... He didn't communicate effectively at all, in the FWB situation. The kicker, is that I had sensed hesistency in the first place, for instance after he said that he did want me to be my fwb(after I asked him) it took him a month before it actually happened between us, he kept avoiding it, or acting scary about it. Finally right before it happened, he started to talk to me about his feelings, and he kept wanting validation about how I felt(but he didn't come out directly and say it but kept asking questions where I was almost forced to reveal my feelings--but I chose to brush around and downplay it because the way he was going about it was very awkward). Then I don't want to get into the intimacy details, but it was a bit uncomfortable, because he was watching my every move, and made a weird comment in the beginning. In any case, afterwards I honestly wanted to peel off and leave. But just to make sure things were still good, I asked him if we still were going to proceed with the FWB.

    That is when he threw me through a loop. He said "well FWBS don't ever end well." And I said, "ok, like what the girl getting hurt" and he said, "yes that, but I'll put it this way, I don't date girls I have FWBS with" and then we got into a discussion about the one girl he did date that was an FWB, and then it led back to the, "well do you want to continue it anyway" and he responded with, "well that's up to you, you control the status of things, your the woman, so your the gatekeeper" when I asked him to elaborate, he said that "at any point I could always tell him no I won't have sex with you unless you do XYZ, or be my boyfriend, or something like that". And I was just like "ok..." By that point, I was starting to feel more and more like I got played. And then he finished with, "I mean no matter what, me and you are still going to see each other. and hang out" and I was like "ok..." and I didn't say anything, so then he said "I mean we don't even have to have a title, not everything has to have a title, let's just keep seeing each other and see where it goes."

    And at that point, I started to feel like he was going in circles, like he was perhaps trying to say something, and was sending cues in my direction, but I didn't really know how to respond because I felt more and more confused about why he agreed to it in the first place if he had all these things in his head... I left at that point. But when I had asked if we could hook up again, and asked another question (that was a bit awkward) and related to the sexual encounter we had he exploded on me and sent me really mean angry texts and by the end of the conversation, he basically let me know that I can not talk to him about sex, or arrange a meet up about it again. If I want to hang out, fine, but don't bring up sex.

    So I didn't.. And I apologized like I said. And everything happened after that(the flaking out on the date, him becoming distant, but not revealing why, telling me he does not want me to leave him alone, but not telling me what that means), so by the time I had seen him again, and could have possibly brought it u I felt so confused and awkward(and again didn't want to bring up sex again since it made him so angry) so I just didn't. I wanted him to. When he didn't, I just let it go.

    But yeah, that is the main issue with our relationship(if you want to call it that) there are some clear communication issues. Even when I try to be direct I don't get directness back. As you can see above.

    He can be direct about so many things, which is why it's so weird that he has not been as direct with me about what he wants.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I don't even have words.

    Well I agreed with her first post... The last one, however, I can't really respond. I have never been in her situation, so I'll leave it at that. But her description of the ENFP hangup issue, describes me exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    For the record. That is NOT cool. Ever ever ever. So so sorry this happened girl.
    Yeah, I know.

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