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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Thanks... That's what I don't get, I suppose. Over the year that we've known each other, he's introduced me to all of his closest friends. And most recently, the last two times I was at his place, he wanted me to get comfortable. For instance, he the last time I saw him, he kept asking me why I was holding so tightly to my purse and why won't I just get comfortable. And he wanted me to take my shoes off, and he kept making a big deal about me not taking my shoes off, and he said I was being anti-social because I wouldn't relax and get comfortable, and because I didn't want him rubbing my thighs. He had told me I could go into his fridge, and I even asked, "Your okay with me going into your fridge?" and he said, "yes". The physical affection was initiated by him(he laid his head on my shoulder and laid on me, while we watched a movie--but later he did try to do sexual stuff, so it might have been a ploy to lead to sex). I kept asking him afterwards, if he wanted me to leave because he kept falling asleep and he seemed tired, and he kept shaking his head no, and even mumbled that I could stay over, I ended up going home anyway(and he seemed surprised when I decided to leave to go home) but he walked me to my car and that was that. We talked a couple of days later, than talked again once more(both times small talk) and then I didn't talk to him for a few days, and when I sent him a silly text after a few days of us not talking, no response. The following day, another "no response" from him. That is what prompted me to write the letter. In the past whenever he gives me the silent treatment for more than one day, it's because I said or did something that upset him. But this time, I'm unsure what the problem was. I wrote the letter because I'm sick of it, but it's so puzzling to me. There were some issues the night that we saw each other(me not getting comfortable enough for him, and then not reading his cue about something and accidently pushing him away, and I was upset about something but later realized that he was giving me a piece of my own medicine), but we still talked after that night, so I assumed things were fine. I wouldn't have wrote the letter, in all honesty(at least not yet, I would have waited until I saw him again in person) if he hadn't given me the silent treatment again for some "unknown" reason.
    He sounds tired of inconsistency. I assume you know, but your last real visit (as described) was him treating you as a lover and you treating him as a friend. Given the clues you've provided, your letter probably seems like a panicked attempt to reel him back in. He may question its long-term truth value. (...as others have said)

    If you do approach him before he responds, demonstrating your position with warmth would probably help reinforce your profession.
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  2. #112
    an abyss of Nothingness Arctic Hysteria's Avatar
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    So now when things seem out of reach, you sit and dig into your brain and analyze back and forth, two times and three times and four times, trying to decode the little smallest details that matter so much to you and might give you a clue to something great and unknown. But woman, sadly these details in fact do not mean anything to him. Do you really think he remembers all the little things he said, all the small affectionate gestures he made? Because if they meant SOOO much, he'd be in your apartment, cuddling with you right now.

    When reality is so damn hard to accept, your brain tells you to look for evidence proving that you may have been missing out on something and THIS is not reality. Look, it's not a mystery.

    Men and women are different, our brains and the working of our hearts are barely the same. Believe it firmly that he DOESN'T WANT you when he lets you go and lets you down easy (partly because of all the games you both played before too).

    Is it truly "love" that you're feeling? Sometimes people cannot admit to themselves that they are addicted to the adrenaline rush of chasing and winning, and all endorphin produced makes one think it's "love". Gosh, if "loving" somebody is having this one guy I'm physically attracted to, that I share many many common interests, have crazy chemistry, get along with at another level, can talk to for hours about anything, spend all free time together, etc., I would have to say I must have been in "love" for over 10 times. Unfortunately, I can only see myself truly "in love" with and truly "love" about 2 or 3 people in my life.

    In my native language, there's a proverb that sounds kind of like this, "the fish you've lost always seems to be the biggest fish". Think about it.
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  3. #113
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    Ok, so all of your assessments are correct... But the reason I acted like that is because after we hooked up for the first time, I had tried to keep things true to our fwb, and make it about being friends that have sex. I won't get into specifics but I did things to indicate that position and when I did he went off on me and got very angry and told me not to come at him again asking to meet up to have sex. He was so angry with me and I was confused because I thought we were fwbs.

    After a week of not talking, I told him that I was sorry and that my feelings were deeper than that when it came to him and he asked me on a date but I flaked at the last minute because a lot of things happened that day I no longer could go. After that, he was very distant and nontalkative. I assumed he wanted me to finally leave him alone. So that is when I asked him if he wanted me to stop contacting him, and he responded with "no I don't want you to leave me alone".,. I also made the mistake of indicating my disappointment with him(as I saw it) cutting off the fwb. He didn't respond but a few days later he invited me over.

    I did not know how to act because I assumed we were not fwbs anymore because of how angry he was when I had tried to make it about sex. So I played it cool. I felt awkward when he was cuddling with me because I didn't understand what was going on between us. I guess he might have gotten aroused because after that he kept rubbing my thighs and trying to pull me close but my thighs are a point of insecurity so I pushed him away. It never dawned on me that be was rubbing them because he wanted sexy time. After that, he moved away from me but kept sighing and he seemed irritable. I didn't get it, I thought he was mad at me but didn't know why, after the movie was over I asked him to sit back next to me, and he was like "I was sitting next to you, you didn't want me to" and I said "fine... But I did" and so I assumed that was why he was mad, so when he came back over and sat next to me, I gave him a kiss on the forehead to show my affection and he grabbed my hand and put it inside of his pants.


    I did stuff with him anyway but when I left I was fuming because I felt semi-used, and I was confused... Like one minute he gets angry when I make things about sex, on the other hand I felt like he had used me that night. He had told me to call him the following day but because I was upset I did not call him for a couple of days. But when I did and we spoke things seemed fine. Same with the second time when we spoke. That is why I was surprised when a few days later I reached out to him and he ignored me.

    I understood after that night that either he was upset because I pushed him away when he wanted sexy time(but I did do stuff with him at the end of the night) and he was sick of feeling misunderstood. On the other hand because I felt used, by how aggressive he was sexually, I assumed he was giving me a peice of my own medicine. But because we spoke after that incident, it's too difficult to say whether or not he was truly upset with me about that or not. However I do believe we both are tired of the inconsitency. So I understand that this might be why he started ignoring me, and probably why he is hesitant to respond.

    Like I said I would be completely understand if he said no with all this in mind. There were many misunderstandings happening. I suppose that since I've taken myself out of the situation, I've been able to look at things objectively and see where things went wrong... And so I understand more and more why he would not want a relationship, I just want him to say "no".

    Or at least speak up and verbalize when he is upset with me instead of being passive aggressive.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Hysteria View Post
    So now when things seem out of reach, you sit and dig into your brain and analyze back forth, two times and three times and four times, trying to decode the little smallest details that matter so much to you and might give you a clue to something great and unknown. But woman, sadly these details in fact do not mean anything to him. Do you really think he remembers all the little things he said, all the small affectionate gestures he made? Because if they mean SOOO much, he'd be in your apartment, cuddling with you right now.

    When reality is so damn hard to accept, your brain tells you to look for evidence proving that you may have been missing out on something and THIS is not reality. Look, it's not a mystery.

    Men and women are different, our brains and the working of our hearts are barely the same. Believe it firmly that he DOESN'T WANT you when he lets you go and lets you down easy (partly because of all the games you both played before too).

    Is it truly "love" that you're feeling? Sometimes people have a cannot admit to themselves that they are addicted to the adrenaline rush of chasing and winning, and all endorphin produced makes one think it's "love". Gosh, if "loving" somebody is having this one guy I'm physically attracted to, that I share many many common interests, have crazy chemistry, get along with at another level, can talk to for hours about anything, spend all free time together, etc., I would have to say I must have been in "love" for over 10 times. Unfortunately, I can only see myself truly "in love" and truly "love" about 2 or 3 people in my life.

    In my native language, there's a proverb that sounds kind of like this, "the fish you've lost always seems to be the biggest fish". Think about it.
    Thank you and this is a fair assement. I'm analyzing every little because I was trying to understand what went wrong. And the more I analyze it the more I understand what went wrong, and the major role I played in things.

    Last night I started feeling as if perhaps I should move on because I too felt like if he really felt a certain way for me, he would be with me right now, but he isn't and it does seem like he's attempting to let me down easy by not responding at all.

    As I've already said if I don't hear from him by the end of the month Im moving on. I know that there are other fish in the sea, believe me I know. Once I close the door to this, there will be other guys I meet. But obviously I really feel for him so if there is a chance I want to see if we could work it out. That being said I understand what you are saying. But I do believe that I love him, in the sense of how deep my feelings are for him. It's a bit insulting to assume I don't know what love is and that I "think" I love based on connection, and other things that you might have felt with 10 guys that you did not love. Don't assume that I'm using that word lightly. I've only used it once before, so it's not a word I just throw around. I'm 27, not 17.

    I do disagree with him not remembering the details or affections he showed. Every time we hang out he will reminisce on previous dates or interactions we had-things that happened a year ago and he describes every detail and emotion felt with accuracy, he remembers things wayyyy more than I do. And it almost always surprises me because I too thought that men don't remember little details, and little things they did tp said. But he remembers it all and far more than I do. So at this point I know him enough to say I disagree that as a man he doesn't remember every detail and wouldn't remember that he was affectionate that night. He remembers. Perhaps it's an intj thing but I know that he remembers every little thing to the point that it can often be unsettling. But I understand why your challenging me on that. And I too have thought what you thought-like if he really likes me why isn't he answering or why hasn't he spoken up.



    While I disagree with you completely on some of the things you've inserted, you have given me some new insight in a weird way lol...

    I appreciate everyone's feedback so far. You guys have honestly really helped me!

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Ok, so all of your assessments are correct... But the reason I acted like that is because after we hooked up for the first time, I had tried to keep things true to our fwb, and make it about being friends that have sex. I won't get into specifics but I did things to indicate that position and when I did he went off on me and got very angry and told me not to come at him again asking to meet up to have sex. He was so angry with me and I was confused because I thought we were fwbs.

    After a week of not talking, I told him that I was sorry and that my feelings were deeper than that when it came to him and he asked me on a date but I flaked at the last minute because a lot of things happened that day I no longer could go. After that, he was very distant and nontalkative. I assumed he wanted me to finally leave him alone. So that is when I asked him if he wanted me to stop contacting him, and he responded with "no I don't want you to leave me alone".,. I also made the mistake of indicating my disappointment with him(as I saw it) cutting off the fwb. He didn't respond but a few days later he invited me over.

    I did not know how to act because I assumed we were not fwbs anymore because of how angry he was when I had tried to make it about sex. So I played it cool. I felt awkward when he was cuddling with me because I didn't understand what was going on between us. I guess he might have gotten aroused because after that he kept rubbing my thighs and trying to pull me close but my thighs are a point of insecurity so I pushed him away. It never dawned on me that be was rubbing them because he wanted sexy time. After that, he moved away from me but kept sighing and he seemed irritable. I didn't get it, I thought he was mad at me but didn't know why, after the movie was over I asked him to sit back next to me, and he was like "I was sitting next to you, you didn't want me to" and I said "fine... But I did" and so I assumed that was why he was mad, so when he came back over and sat next to me, I gave him a kiss on the forehead to show my affection and he grabbed my head and put it in his pants.


    I did stuff with him anyway but when I left I was fuming because I felt semi-used, and I was confused... Like one minute he gets angry when I make things about sex, on the other hand I felt like he had used me that night. He had told me to call him the following day but because I was upset I did not call him for a couple of days. But when I did and we spoke things seemed fine. Same with the second time when we spoke. That is why I was surprised when a few days later I reached out to him and he ignored me.

    I understood after that night that either he was upset because I pushed him away when he wanted sexy time(but I did do stuff with him at the end of the night) and he was sick of feeling misunderstood. On the other hand because I felt used, by how aggressive he was sexually, I assumed he was giving me a peice of my own medicine. But because we spoke after that incident, it's too difficult to say whether or not he was truly upset with me about that or not. However I do believe we both are tired of the inconsitency. So I understand that this might be why he started ignoring me, and probably why he is hesitant to respond.

    Like I said I would be completely understand if he said no with all this in mind. There were many misunderstandings happening. I suppose that since I've taken myself out of the situation, I've been able to look at things objectively and see where things went wrong... And so I understand more and more why he would not want a relationship, I just want him to say "no".

    Or at least speak up and verbalize when he is upset with me instead of being passive aggressive.
    Sorry, but all of this, especially the bolded, is reason for you to not only decide for yourself that you're better off, but RUN while doing it.

    This was complete emotional manipulation at its worst AND treating you like a piece of shit. Not a person at all. There is no excusing this crap no matter what your problems were. He's not a communicator, he's an action taker (in addition to this incident, he stalked you in the beginning and he's punishing you now with active silence), and his actions are selfish because he is. Being with him would be this moment you described here over and over, but worse each time.

    He's not answering you because he couldn't control you. If he does answer you, it's because he thinks you've 'learned your lesson.'

    Chalk this up to experience, and run.
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Sorry, but all of this, especially the bolded, is reason for you to not only decide for yourself that you're better off, but RUN while doing it.

    This was complete emotional manipulation at its worst AND treating you like a piece of shit. Not a person at all. There is no excusing this crap no matter what your problems were. He's not a communicator, he's an action taker (in addition to this incident, he stalked you in the beginning and he's punishing you now with active silence), and his actions are selfish because he is. Being with him would be this moment you described here over and over, but worse each time.

    He's not answering you because he couldn't control you. If he does answer you, it's because he thinks you've 'learned your lesson.'

    Chalk this up to experience, and run.
    For the bolded I meant "hand" not head. Lol. I will edit it.

    I was bothered by it too. I felt like it was completely disrespectful and weird. And like I said that was why I left and did not call him right away like he wanted me to. But then we had spoken a couple of days later and he seemed fine. We talked again another day after that about a show we both watch (house of cards) and again things seemed okay. Then I did not contact him for three days and when I finally did that is when the silent treatment began. Whenever he's upset with me he gives me the silent treatment. And I'm expected to read his mind and fix things. Whether it's him being mad because I can't go out on a certain day, etc.

    Yes he did stalk me in the beginning, and even later on in the year, during one of the months that I stopped talking to him, he would often walk pass the room I was working in, and I would feel him looking at me. I never looked up, but I always knew in the back of my mind when he was staring at me.

    He's creepy, but he also never really acts very controlling or mean in person. He's always laid back and chill. That night was the first night he had ever done anything so crass like that. He usually is very physically aloof and a gentleman. As in he will wait for my cues before doing anything. That was why I felt used that day, and couldn't understand what got into him to do that.

    Do you really believe he was trying to control me, if it's only that one time when that happened?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Do you really believe he was trying to control me, if it's only that one time when that happened?
    Hand is most definitely different than Head.

    Sounds like he was 1. sexually frustrated and 2. frustrated at you for emphasizing the friends-only thing when he may have wanted more, and that was his way of showing both. "Okay, then, if it's just sex, then let's stop the useless talking and bonding and get to straight fucking."

    To get the sex, distance himself emotionally, AND get his 'point' across (about how empty just-sex with him can be) by withholding kindness, consideration and typical non-sexual bonding actions (like talking, cuddling, not shoving your hand on his crotch). In frustrating, emotional moments when people are hurt, they do sometimes react by immediately trying to hurt the one that hurt them to show them how it feels.

    Perhaps more emotionally immature than controlling. But, you'd both need to grow a wee bit in that area if you got together. We're all still growing in that area!

    Lot of difference ONE WORD can make, eh?
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  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Sorry, but all of this, especially the bolded, is reason for you to not only decide for yourself that you're better off, but RUN while doing it.

    This was complete emotional manipulation at its worst AND treating you like a piece of shit. Not a person at all. There is no excusing this crap no matter what your problems were. He's not a communicator, he's an action taker (in addition to this incident, he stalked you in the beginning and he's punishing you now with active silence), and his actions are selfish because he is. Being with him would be this moment you described here over and over, but worse each time.

    He's not answering you because he couldn't control you. If he does answer you, it's because he thinks you've 'learned your lesson.'

    Chalk this up to experience, and run.
    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Hand is most definitely different than Head.

    Sounds like he was 1. sexually frustrated and 2. frustrated at you for emphasizing the friends-only thing when he may have wanted more, and that was his way of showing both. "Okay, then, if it's just sex, then let's stop the useless talking and bonding and get to straight fucking."

    To get the sex, distance himself emotionally, AND get his 'point' across (about how empty just-sex with him can be) by withholding kindness, consideration and typical non-sexual bonding actions (like talking, cuddling, not shoving your hand on his crotch). In frustrating, emotional moments when people are hurt, they do sometimes react by immediately trying to hurt the one that hurt them to show them how it feels.

    Perhaps more emotionally immature than controlling. But, you'd both need to grow a wee bit in that area if you got together. We're all still growing in that area!

    Lot of difference ONE WORD can make, eh?
    Ha yea. I knew that he did it on purpose after I had thought about it, but I didn't react like it bothered me and carried on as usual, in the days after. And like I said we had spoken afterwards, on two different ocassions and things seemed fine. So the silent treatment out of nowhere just was really weird to me.

    I understand the emotional immaturity, and I definitely get that from him , he's done it before plenty of times, like trying to get me back for things but doing it passively, and expecting me to take the hint or understand. Usually I react but I didn't this time because I felt more embarrassed than anything.

    I've honestly never dealt with a guy that is passive aggressive like this. Most of the guys I've dated or talked with will speak up and let me know right away when I've done something that they don't like. He's the only person that does this. It makes it difficult for me to understand how I'm supposed to understand certain things that aren't verbalized.

    He watches a lot of shows like house of cards, etc and has told me before that he plans a lot and has strategies for doing things. So on some level like I said he is very passive aggressive and sneaky but most of the things he's done are very deliberate. This silence is deliberate. And deep down I know it's another one of his tests to either see how I react or to let me know something is bothering him.

    Is this a part of the immaturity as well? I'm just not used to this. I have a tendency to be immature emotionally as well, but one thing I do is speak up and let him know directly when I'm bothered or when he does something I don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rayna View Post
    Ha yea. I knew that he did it on purpose after I had thought about it, but I didn't react like it bothered me and carried on as usual, in the days after. And like I said we had spoken afterwards, on two different ocassions and things seemed fine. So the silent treatment out of nowhere just was really weird to me.

    I understand the emotional immaturity, and I definitely get that from him , he's done it before plenty of times, like trying to get me back for things. Usually I react but I didn't this time because I felt more embarrassed than anything.

    I've honestly never dealt with a guy that is passive aggressive like this. Most of the guys I've dated or talked with will speak up and let me know right away when I've done something that they don't like. He's the only person that does this. It makes it difficult for me to understand how I'm supposed to understand certain things that aren't verbalized.
    Yeah, I know what it's like with the passive-aggressiveness. I've been guilty of it too, but it's something I can only do a little before speaking out. Probably more guilty of speaking out TOO much. It's like quiet-brood-analyze-quiet-analyze-quiet-SPLOSION.

    Being able to read subtext in people's actions and words helps a lot with this (as I'm sure you know), but only so far. No one is a mind reader (damnit!), so it's a good idea for people who do it to try to avoid it and step out of their comfort zone by speaking up as soon as they can when something bothers them. In a relationship, it helps if both people feel safe enough to communicate anything and do all they can to make the other feel safe, but that takes time and a conscious effort to change habits. It's possible though. Maybe if you guys end up together, you can both work on that and grow closer and stronger that way.

    I'm lucky in that my boyfriend is an INFP, so he reads these things pretty well. Now, it's more like:

    quiet-broo-INFPGUYINFACEWIDE-EYEDANDREPEATEDLYASKINGWHATSUP-slowly begin talking-INFP guy says something really logical without judging-I say "ohhhh" and it's over. Kiss-Kiss-Hug.

    It took a bit to get there though. I'm not the 'automatically open up about feelings' type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Sorry, but all of this, especially the bolded, is reason for you to not only decide for yourself that you're better off, but RUN while doing it.

    This was complete emotional manipulation at its worst AND treating you like a piece of shit. Not a person at all. There is no excusing this crap no matter what your problems were. He's not a communicator, he's an action taker (in addition to this incident, he stalked you in the beginning and he's punishing you now with active silence), and his actions are selfish because he is. Being with him would be this moment you described here over and over, but worse each time.

    He's not answering you because he couldn't control you. If he does answer you, it's because he thinks you've 'learned your lesson.'

    Chalk this up to experience, and run.
    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Yeah, I know what it's like with the passive-aggressiveness. I've been guilty of it too, but it's something I can only do a little before speaking out. Probably more guilty of speaking out TOO much. It's like quiet-brood-analyze-quiet-analyze-quiet-SPLOSION.

    Being able to read subtext in people's actions and words helps a lot with this (as I'm sure you know), but only so far. No one is a mind reader (damnit!), so it's a good idea for people who do it to try to avoid it and step out of their comfort zone by speaking up as soon as they can when something bothers them. In a relationship, it helps if both people feel safe enough to communicate anything and do all they can to make the other feel safe, but that takes time and a conscious effort to change habits. It's possible though. Maybe if you guys end up together, you can both work on that and grow closer and stronger that way.

    I'm lucky in that my boyfriend is an INFP, so he reads these things pretty well. Now, it's more like:

    quiet-broo-INFPGUYINFACEWIDE-EYEDANDREPEATEDLYASKINGWHATSUP-slowly begin talking-INFP guy says something really logical without judging-I say "ohhhh" and it's over. Kiss-Kiss-Hug.

    It took a bit to get there though. I'm not the 'automatically open up about feelings' type.
    Thank you! Your posts have really helped me. But if someone doesn't feel safe to open up, in the meantime how does one learn to read and understand the other if they don't speak up?

    Like how am I supposed to understand what I'm doing wrong or how to improve if it's not told to me?

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