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  1. #81
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    As a rule, if you lack a Sensing function visualising 3 dimensional images in your head - let alone translating them into something objective - can be difficult. It is a fair assumption to make that INFJs wouldn't be good visual artists because Ni doms are quite detached from the environment, and in extreme cases, our own bodies.

    As an example: I don't "see" notes in my head, I hear them, so I can't accurately write music directly down onto paper like an SP composer might be able to. I have to play it out. This puts a lot of pressure on me being an adept performer and having knowledge of theory, orchestration, etc, otherwise my intution will be too far ahead of my learned knowledge to be of much use.
    That's not what my response was addressing.
    It was focused on the argument self-contained within that post and how it was stated.
    All the things you say about yourself are likely true.

    And since this now is becoming some kind of derail, I'm going to disappear.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #82
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    As a rule, if you lack a strong Sensing function visualising 3 dimensional images in your head - let alone translating them into something objective - can be difficult. It is a fair assumption to make that INFJs wouldn't be good at creating lifelike visual images (i.e. concrete art) because Ni doms are quite detached from the environment, and in extreme cases, our own bodies. To paint somebody's face accurately, you need to have a mental picture of that person's face in mind.

    As an example: I don't "see" notes in my head, I hear them, so I can't accurately write music directly down onto paper like an SP composer might be able to. I have to play it out. This puts a lot of pressure on me being an adept performer and having knowledge of theory, orchestration, etc, otherwise my intution will be too far ahead of my learned knowledge to be of much use.
    which is the main reason I argue that I am not an ISFP
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #83
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    As a rule, if you lack a strong Sensing function visualising 3 dimensional images in your head - let alone translating them into something objective - can be difficult. It is a fair assumption to make that INFJs wouldn't be good at creating lifelike visual images (i.e. concrete art) because Ni doms are quite detached from the environment, and in extreme cases, our own bodies. To paint somebody's face accurately, you need to have a mental picture of that person's face in mind.
    To be completely blunt: What a crock of shit. My mother is an INFJ, went to school for illustration, and can paint/draw so well as to make them look like a photograph given the time.

    Simply put:
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari

    Likes Arctic Hysteria, Mademoiselle liked this post

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    To be completely blunt: What a crock of shit. My mother is an INFJ, went to school for illustration, and can paint/draw so well as to make them look like a photograph given the time.

    Simply put:
    Too blunt.

  5. #85
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    INTJs are rare, hard to be spoken of naturally, and yes I think so.
    Because we’re we’re unable to express our selves, fearing to be misunderstood.
    So a time comes in every INTJ’s life to try to express him/her self in the language of “people”

    Notice when I’m talking about the other types I say “people”

    So first thing came to my mind was to express the high standards I have..
    By trying to have a high standard according to the common sense, community and even traditional rules.
    But the question was on the difference between the male and female INTJ. So is it that females have it rougher than the other gender and INTJs have it rougher than the other types?

    But, yeah. Having a rough time communicating isn't the sole domain of INTJs, nor do INTJs necessarily have trouble communicating.

    I'm trying to ask questions about INTJ ladies, as I've been invited to do by the OP, and I'm not getting any answers.
    J. Scott Crothers
    aka "Bush Did 9/11"
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    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    See, now you're kind of trampling on my Ti sensibilities:

    - It's kind of silly IMO to say any single INFJ is incapable of being talented at visual arts; just because it's not as LIKELY (which i agree with) doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE.

    - My INFJ daughter actually is a decent visual artist in pen/pencil, and one of my INFJ friends at my last job worked with textiles and paints.

    So I really hope that "NOT INFJ" is drawn from some other data, because otherwise this is a clear example of using type to limit someone's capabilities.

    Perhaps I should be more precise in my post and say that it's the OP's need to use font to express herself in every post makes me think she might be ISFP.
    Fi doms usually have this strong need to express themselves, based on the INFPs and ISFPs that I know in real life anyway.

    Yes, there are some INFJs out there who can be talented at visual arts too, but if an INFJ turn to art to express themselves, it's more of a need to express their complex personal Ni visions rather than to express some personal Fi values. INFJs often have a difficult time expressing their complex personal visions in this world. So they start turning to art to express this side of them.
    INFJ's art usually have a deeper symbolic meaning behind it. If an INFJ turn to art, they usually have this hidden desire to use their art to influence humanity in some ways (it can be as simple as trying to make people around them happy by looking at their artpiece, or it can be as complex as trying to promote world peace or some other messages through their art).
    So I guess it all depends on the motivations, why they feel the need to turn to arts, what they are trying to express through their art etc.
    From the OP's post, I get this feel from her that she feels misunderstood by people (which is a common enneagram 4 trait), and she uses art to express those feelings of hers. The way she approached art however is more of an Fi perspective rather than an Ni perspective, her art doesn't really have any symbolic meanings behind it other than the fact that she just wants to use those art to make people understand her deepest innermost feelings and personality, her art has nothing to do with some inner personal visions etc.
    Likes Kullervo liked this post

  7. #87
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    @ceecee
    @andante
    @Coriolis
    @Urarienev

    Seems familiar to you?
    I haven't read much of the thread Chubs

    What are you asking?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I haven't read much of the thread Chubs

    What are you asking?
    I think he is asking whether you can relate to OP. Do you see much of her affect and style in yourself? Does she seem like an NT woman?

  9. #89
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I think he is asking whether you can relate to OP. Do you see much of her affect and style in yourself? Does she seem like an NT woman?
    I figured, but i didn't want to assume anything.

    I think I agree with Rasofy actually. But that's only my first impression, so who knows.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  10. #90
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I disagree. As a male, you have to work, you have to slave away or you have no value to society, a partner and ultimately yourself.

    Women are not bound to this. In reality, women have a lot more choice in how to live their lives than do men.
    In this you are correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Women can choose to stay at home and raise children, or join the workforce. Nobody is supposed to judge them for what decision they make. Men by contrast don't have this choice.

    Now here's where i differ from the fedora-wearers and MRAs. I don't think that men should have more choice. I think that women have too much. Many people don't understand that having too much choice/freedom is as crippling as having too little.
    But here you go backwards. Why not increase choices for men rather than restrict them for women? In reality, most of us are prevented from having "too much choice" by factors far beyond tradition and gender. These include upbringing; socioeconomic status; geographic location; individual strengths, weaknesses, and inclinations; and constraints like needing to provide for younger siblings, etc. Reality already introduces plenty of limits. We don't need to create additional ones for anyone. (By this reasoning, blacks should have remained a slave class, lest they be "crippled" by having too much freedom.)

    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    So why do the males have it easier?
    The usual answer is that stereotypical INTJ behavior is aligned much more closely with socially accepted male behavior than female. As a result, women will get more flack than men for exhibiting the same traits and behaviors. I won't speak for other INTJs, male or female, but I honestly cannot be bothered. Perhaps that is why I don't feel I have experienced too much of this personally. On the other hand, my studies and career have kept me in primarily male circles, where I have been well received.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post

    I.. think community rules are pretty narrow, trying to show us how we’re supposed to be.
    We can’t deny those rules are much detailed when it comes to females.
    Positive point in this: Women are taken more care off.
    Negative point in this: women are required to work harder to be accepted.
    The even more positive point is that, in many parts of the world at least, enforcement of these narrow rules is lax at best. This means women (and men) can throw caution to the winds and express, if not 100% of themselves all the time, at least 90% most of the time. (I'm not sure anyone gets to be 100% themselves always.) The corresponding negative is that too many people don't realize how much freedom they really do have. INTJs tend to be among those who do.

    @chubber: does this answer your (unstated) question?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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