[INTJ] Courtroom: INTJ female

[Bush]

I can’t verbally say it.

I'd like to try to understand by asking questions. But I'm not sure how best to phrase that particular question so that it can be answered verbally.

Here's another stab at it. Are you saying that the pictures are conveying females in a way that society looks down upon; and that they are conveying males in a way that society looks favorably upon; but since the male and female pictures are so similar the only difference between 'down' and 'favorably' is gender?

Also I didn’t get the last paragraph.

Not to worry; that was an aside to EJCC about the site itself.

 

[Nicodemus]

Yes I do.
Needless to ask.
I already considered that.
And consider that I posted that realising that.

You already considered going back to read the whole conversation again? Why haven't you, for dog's sake?

I am still waiting for that precious explanation, suited, as requested, to the delicate mind powers of an ISFJ. The clock is ticking.

Get a room, you two.

Only if you provide the room service.

 

[Mademoiselle]

I'd like to try to understand by asking questions. But I'm not sure how best to phrase that particular question so that it can be answered verbally.

Here's another stab at it. Are you saying that the pictures are conveying females in a way that society looks down upon; and that they are conveying males in a way that society looks favorably upon; but since the male and female pictures are so similar the only difference between 'down' and 'favorably' is gender?
Not to worry; that was an aside to EJCC about the site itself.

I.. think community rules are pretty narrow, trying to show us how we’re supposed to be.
We can’t deny those rules are much detailed when it comes to females.
Positive point in this: Women are taken more care off.
Negative point in this: women are required to work harder to be accepted.

Honestly, if I lived a day as an INTJ male, I could answer this more accurately.

Gentlemen what do you say?​

 

[Bush]

I.. think community rules are pretty narrow, trying to show us how we’re supposed to be.
We can’t deny those rules are much detailed when it comes to females.
Positive point in this: Women are taken more care off.
Negative point in this: women are required to work harder to be accepted.​

So it's less of an 'INTJ male' and 'INTJ female' difference and more of a general 'male' and 'female' difference? That would imply that type doesn't factor into the discussion.

 

[Mademoiselle]

You already considered going back to read the whole conversation again? Why haven't you, for dog's sake?

I am still waiting for that precious explanation, suited, as requested, to the delicate mind powers of an ISFJ. The clock is ticking.


Only if you provide the room service.

….Dogs?
I don’t care about dogs.
I thought after reading that you’ll get what I said earlier.
OK what’re the parts you didn’t understand yet?
I expect you to say you didn’t understand anything new.
Please let my gut be wrong.​

So it's less of an 'INTJ male' and 'INTJ female' difference and more of a general 'male' and 'female' difference? That would imply that type doesn't factor into the discussion.

INTJs are rare, hard to be spoken of naturally, and yes I think so.
Because we’re we’re unable to express our selves, fearing to be misunderstood.
So a time comes in every INTJ’s life to try to express him/her self in the language of “people”

Notice when I’m talking about the other types I say “people”

So first thing came to my mind was to express the high standards I have..
By trying to have a high standard according to the common sense, community and even traditional rules.​

 

[Nicodemus]

I think MatsNorway might be able to help us here.

Where are you, dude?

 

[Opal]

Only if you provide the room service.

Only if you slip me a sizable tip.

 

[Mademoiselle]

I think MatsNorway might be able to help us here.

Where are you, dude?

What are you trying to do?​

 

[Destiny]

INFJ 4w5 sp/sx

Not INFJ.

INFJs don't express ourselves through fonts/visual arts. We have inferior Se, we aren't that good at visual arts. We are more apt to express ourselves through creative writing than through fonts/visual arts. Expressing oneself through fonts/visual arts is a very Fi-Se thing to do, ISFP enneagram 4w5 is my vote for the OP's type.
There is a reason why ISFPs are known as The Artists

 

[Opal]

Expressing oneself through fonts/visual arts is a very Fi-Se thing to do, ISFP enneagram 4w5 is my vote for the OP's type. There is a reason why ISFPs are known as The Artists

Seconded.

[MENTION=22782]Mademoiselle[/MENTION], the ISFP function stack is Fi-Se-Ni-Te. As I understand it, the third function (in this case, Ni) goes through periods of strength and weakness. IxxPs also have a tendency to focus on their fourth function, causing it to appear higher in the function stack.

Anyone disagree?

 

[Nicodemus]

….Dogs?
I don’t care about dogs.
I thought after reading that you’ll get what I said earlier.
OK what’re the parts you didn’t understand yet?
I expect you to say you didn’t understand anything new.
Please let my gut be wrong.

Okay, let us recap what has happened, leaving out the meaningless parts:

1. You said: "Never talk about “Loneliness” in a forum has INTJ members…", which implies a special connection between loneliness or the talk thereof and INTJs.
2. I asked: "Why?", trying to find out what (you think) that connection is.
3. You offered no explanation that would even attempt to answer the question. But you asked: "Shall I explain more?", inviting me to continue my inquiry.
4. So I said: "Yes, please explain why one should 'never talk about “Loneliness” in a forum has INTJ members'. Please make sure your explanation entails the words 'INTJ(s)', 'talk', and 'always' or 'never'."
5. None of your replies since, however wordy and wise-sounding, have shed any light on the connection in question. I remain wondering.

Now I beg you to try. Hint: You are unlikely to succeed without the words 'INTJ(s)', 'talk', and 'always' or 'never'.

 

[velveteen]

Well, this thread was a huge bucket of cringe.

 

[Kullervo]

INTJs are rare, hard to be spoken of naturally, and yes I think so.
Because we’re we’re unable to express our selves, fearing to be misunderstood.
So a time comes in every INTJ’s life to try to express him/her self in the language of “people”

Notice when I’m talking about the other types I say “people”

So first thing came to my mind was to express the high standards I have..
By trying to have a high standard according to the common sense, community and even traditional rules.​

[/QUOTE]


Some INTJs are very confrontational and will not hold back from speaking their mind. Not all INTJs are 5w6s. Cp6s and 8s (or types with cp6 or 8 fixes) in particular do not mince words. Men also tend to be more direct than women.

Unfortunately I have to agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] here. The INTJ, regardless of gender and Enneatype, is quite dismissive of societal expectations at a personal level. They may, like me, see the value of group structures at an intellectual level, but will remain conflicted about applying this knowledge to their personal lives due to a clash with their intution and emotional desires. You seem very orientated towards the community. There is nothing wrong with this - it just isn't a typical INTJ trait because our Feeling function is turned inward. INFJs and ISFJs by contrast...

 

[Nicodemus]

Unfortunately I have to agree with [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] here.

You can breathe easy: I haven't made any claims about INTJs in a long time.

 

[Totenkindly]

Not INFJ.

INFJs don't express ourselves through fonts/visual arts. We have inferior Se, we aren't that good at visual arts. We are more apt to express ourselves through creative writing than through fonts/visual arts. Expressing oneself through fonts/visual arts is a very Fi-Se thing to do, ISFP enneagram 4w5 is my vote for the OP's type.
There is a reason why ISFPs are known as The Artists

See, now you're kind of trampling on my Ti sensibilities:

- It's kind of silly IMO to say any single INFJ is incapable of being talented at visual arts; just because it's not as LIKELY (which i agree with) doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE.

- My INFJ daughter actually is a decent visual artist in pen/pencil, and one of my INFJ friends at my last job worked with textiles and paints.

So I really hope that "NOT INFJ" is drawn from some other data, because otherwise this is a clear example of using type to limit someone's capabilities.

 

[Opal]

See, now you're kind of trampling on my Ti sensibilities:

- It's kind of silly IMO to say any single INFJ is incapable of being talented at visual arts; just because it's not as LIKELY (which i agree with) doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE.

- My INFJ daughter actually is a decent visual artist in pen/pencil, and one of my INFJ friends at my last job worked with textiles and paints.

So I really hope that "NOT INFJ" is drawn from some other data, because otherwise this is a clear example of using type to limit someone's capabilities.

Though words are my preferred medium, I'm in the same boat as your daughter (with weak Se, wherever it falls). Visual art takes more concentration and patience than words.

There may be a language barrier with the OP, but I think she did express that she is best understood through interpretation of her visual art.

 

[Rasofy]

Not INFJ.

INFJs don't express ourselves through fonts/visual arts. We have inferior Se, we aren't that good at visual arts. We are more apt to express ourselves through creative writing than through fonts/visual arts. Expressing oneself through fonts/visual arts is a very Fi-Se thing to do, ISFP enneagram 4w5 is my vote for the OP's type.
There is a reason why ISFPs are known as The Artists

You might be on to something. I wonder how [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] would type her.

 

[Totenkindly]

Though words are my preferred medium, I'm in the same boat as your daughter (with weak Se, wherever it falls). Visual art takes more concentration and patience than words.

There may be a language barrier with the OP, but I think she did express that she is best understood through interpretation of her visual art.

Again, as I said, there really needs to be more data triangulation rather than hinging a type read on a generalization.

 

[á´…eparted]

 

[Kullervo]

See, now you're kind of trampling on my Ti sensibilities:

- It's kind of silly IMO to say any single INFJ is incapable of being talented at visual arts; just because it's not as LIKELY (which i agree with) doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE.

- My INFJ daughter actually is a decent visual artist in pen/pencil, and one of my INFJ friends at my last job worked with textiles and paints.

So I really hope that "NOT INFJ" is drawn from some other data, because otherwise this is a clear example of using type to limit someone's capabilities.

As a rule, if you lack a strong Sensing function visualising 3 dimensional images in your head - let alone translating them into something objective - can be difficult. It is a fair assumption to make that INFJs wouldn't be good at creating lifelike visual images (i.e. concrete art) because Ni doms are quite detached from the environment, and in extreme cases, our own bodies. To paint somebody's face accurately, you need to have a mental picture of that person's face in mind.

As an example: I don't "see" notes in my head, I hear them, so I can't accurately write music directly down onto paper like an SP composer might be able to. I have to play it out. This puts a lot of pressure on me being an adept performer and having knowledge of theory, orchestration, etc, otherwise my intution will be too far ahead of my learned knowledge to be of much use.