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  1. #51
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Strange. While I am good at school, I've found myself much more easily adaptable to the working realm. Might this be realted to activity levels? Extraverts have it easier on entry-level jobs that require less intellectual prowess but more moving capacity and higher workloads in a given amounts of time. Introverts fare slightly better in academic settings where they are allowed to think problems more thoroughly - a soft spot of mine has always been excessive speed in problem solving which, in school, leads to not perfect marks, but at the workplace seems to be appreciated since approximation is enough to guarantee results.
    When you are in school or at the university, the outcome basically depends on you alone. So, if you are gifted and a little bit organized, you get good grades. In a work environment, a multitude of factors have an impact on the outcomes (the economic situation, your co-workes, the management of the company, your looks, your social skills etc.). I am mid - fortyish and I have been very successful (and lucky) in my professional life, but it took me many years to get used to the ups and downs, and to the sheer sense of randomness that a professional life involves.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    In ninth grade, my lack of a need to study caught up with me. As one guidance counselor put it, "you're a Corvette doing twenty-five." By senior year I managed to raise my grade point average to a level that would not diminish my standing for college acceptance. In college, of course, I studied what I enjoyed, so earned my bachelor's magna cum laude.
    Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.

  3. #53
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methofelis View Post
    I did just fine up to the fifth grade -- gifted classes and whatnot.

    After that -- I stopped doing schoolwork. My test scores for the SATs and such still made it to the top percentiles of the state, but that is the only reason I passed.

    I was thrown from school to school due to moving and my own behavior, and eventually was sent to a 'special' school for the drastically dumb and amazingly intelligent. I finished high school at fourteen and haven't set foot in a school since. I did not do well socially or with the teachers, except a rare few. I was not a fan of school.
    This kind of makes me cringe, because the first paragraph could be about me. I loved elementary school, gifted classes were awesome, it was idyllic. Then I went to middle school and everything changed. It was a much more institutional atmosphere, the discipline was punative rather than encouraging, and I pretty much sat on my hands. The guidance counselor put me in a group of underachievers with potential who met with her several times a week to talk about our feelings, which was painfully awkward and lame.

    My parents, God love 'em, took me out and my mother homeschooled me. It quickly became apparent that homeschooling was not the answer for me, at least not at that time. So they shopped around and found a private Quaker school that operated as a co-op, which cut the tuition down to almost nothing. My mom and I cleaned one of the school buildings every Friday. It was, quite simply, the best place I could have been placed. I stayed there until the end of 9th grade, then spent a year technically homeschooled but de facto auditing college courses (got no credit for them, except what my mom assigned to me as a homeschool student), took the GED on my 16th birthday, and started college proper at a CC. After a couple of years when I was ready to leave home, I transferred to a 4-year school as a junior. I loved college, too, and would have stayed on as a grad student and possibly a professor if circumstances had allowed.

    I know several kids who had similar experiences transitioning from elementary to middle school, but had to stay put. Most of them became jaded and got out of high school as soon as possible and never went to college. It has made me a real pain-in-the-ass when it comes to my kids' educations-- I won't settle for a shitty environment, or punative atmosphere, or dull academics. I'll shop around and get the best, even if that means homeschooling them (but please, God, let it not mean homeschooling them).
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  4. #54
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I've had a similar experience with middle school, Ivy. There are two sides of the coin: the positive is that I breezed through HS due to how hard I had to work in middle school (basically, the math program was more advanced that anything programmed in HS); the negative is that I completely lost any pleasure in educating myself through "official" means, and thus now I perceive college homework the same way I used to perceive middle school homework.

    When you are in school or at the university, the outcome basically depends on you alone. So, if you are gifted and a little bit organized, you get good grades. In a work environment, a multitude of factors have an impact on the outcomes (the economic situation, your co-workes, the management of the company, your looks, your social skills etc.). I am mid - fortyish and I have been very successful (and lucky) in my professional life, but it took me many years to get used to the ups and downs, and to the sheer sense of randomness that a professional life involves.
    I find the factors you listed as influencing work performance to be fair easier to control in comparison to being organized in study matters. To put it simply, in many instances study does not guarantee the monetary reward that work does, nor it does give me any skill that I find either useful, or interesting to learn, except for specific instances (i.e. computer science courses, accounting courses, finance courses).

  5. #55
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I find the factors you listed as influencing work performance to be fair easier to control in comparison to being organized in study matters. To put it simply, in many instances study does not guarantee the monetary reward that work does, nor it does give me any skill that I find either useful, or interesting to learn, except for specific instances (i.e. computer science courses, accounting courses, finance courses).

    As you mentioned earlier, your being an Extrovert (and especially ENTJ) may very well make life in the work environment easier for you than any type of school / university. I wanted to share my experience mostly because of the frustration that seemed to come out of what thirtyfour wrote (probably should have quoted that post instead of yours...sorry), and I could relate so well to it. As I wrote earlier, school and university were like child's play to me, and then for the first ten years of my professional life I kept asking myself "what am I doing wrong, it used to be so easy, now it is so difficult?" As it turned out, there was nothing I did wrong and eventually everything worked out nicely, but it was just a very different environment which needed adapting to.

  6. #56
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    As an ESFJ I found school to my liking. I was always the teacher's favourite, finished all my work on time, and passed with flying colours. The entire education system seemed to be ideally suited to someone of my intellect and temperement, while some of my less-than-concrete friends fell behind, making endless excuses for their poor performance. Honestly.
    The SJ.
    A monolith: the way it is described in this forum?

    The Keirsey doctrine does have a place.
    It does not mean we have to go beyond the lake to fish.


    The XSTJ kid in my class got the best grades.
    He was dutiful and he did his homework.

    After school he worked in the bank.
    He became a bank clark with credentials.
    Eventually he became the bank manager.

    At school he was loved by teachers and students alike.
    He was polite, corteous, respectful.

    He paid attention.
    He did not exactly excel at sports.
    In sports it did not matter that he was not better than the average student.
    He did make an effort.

    After school he became the treasurer in his local congregation. A man to be trusted.

    The money he earned he invested wisely.
    He lead a sedentary life.

    He has never been seen inside a pub.
    On two occasions only he has seen the interior of a movie theatre.

    In both cases it was a family occasion.
    For the sons and the daughters and their families.
    And of course he did buy all the tickets.


    To what extent do you find yourself in the description?

  7. #57
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    With all the talk on websites about how N's tend to do better in school than S's, I was just wondering how well fellow N's did in school.

    Personally, I was an average to below average student in both high school and college. It's not that I wasn't interested in the concepts of things, but I either:
    1. Was interested in what was being taught, but wasn't motivated to do homework or write a paper.
    2. Got bored with the concepts being taught and zoned out -- often doodling in my notebook.


    But I never thought of myself as hating school because it wasn't action-oriented or immediately practical (I hated gym class probably more than anything). My interests were very much in line with the abstract academic classes such as philosophy, history, or psychology. (Although I generally suck at math.)

    On the other hand, I never really liked literature classes despite my interests in creative writing. I'm usually impatient when I read fiction or poetry, I'd much rather get my creative inspiration through reading science and historical articles and watching movies.

    And whenever I'd read or write a fictional story, I'm more interested in the climaxes rather than the character development.

    And the only hands-on classes I was interested in were art classes, since, naturally, they were more inspirational rather than concrete.

    Were/are any other NT's like this in school?
    What does it mean, what is being taught?

    At school, nothing is being taught.

    Understanding is self born.
    To teach is to obstruct.

    Tedious is the word.

    You learn only one thing at school.
    Boredom.

    Tic tic tic..
    When is the lesson going to end?

  8. #58
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    What does it mean, what is being taught?

    At school, nothing is being taught.

    Understanding is self born.
    To teach is to obstruct.

    Tedious is the word.

    You learn only one thing at school.
    Boredom.

    Tic tic tic..
    When is the lesson going to end?
    Yeah, this is true for many schools. But it doesn't have to be this way. I went to schools (and chose one for my daughter) where they approached teaching as providing fuel for a self-burning fire, rather than dropping pebbles in an empty bucket.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #59
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    School was difficult for me. I pulled myself from D's when I started to high B's by the time I left (I have a crappy memory for things that don't engage my mind). At University I would invariably get top in course year for unstructured report case analysis (eg Harvard case studies) and get a bit above average in written tests.

    I was always getting heat from my lecturers for not getting straight A's. I told them it was their academic system that penalised people like me with divergent thought processes.... biggest thing I learned at University was to start focusing/disciplining my thought processes....

  10. #60
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Yeah, this is true for many schools. But it doesn't have to be this way. I went to schools (and chose one for my daughter) where they approached teaching as providing fuel for a self-burning fire, rather than dropping pebbles in an empty bucket.
    Only in America.

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