[MBTI General] INTp & ESTp questions???

[ESTP]

Im involved with an INTp (male) i'm an ESTp (female). I sometimes think he has issues that he doesn't quite open up about completely, he hasnt talked about things in much detail...but he drinks a lot. He has told me about certain events in his life which have been extreemly tragic...but very matter of factly. I think they affect him deeply, and I really want to help him. I dont want to change him, but I want to shed some positivity in his life. I really care about this person. He has a tendancy of telling me how he feels about shit through music a lot.

 

[colmena]

I'm not sure what to say, but I really like your attitude. He sounds lucky to have you.

How long have been with him?

You say he tries to communicate by referencing music. You've probably made good inferences about this already, and it's probably as simple as it sounds.

If he doesn't hold much value in language, I'm not sure what you can do (assuming he's not so interested in the lyrics).

Otherwise, he needs help with his insecurities in expressing himself and interpersonal skills. I don't know how to help, because I'm a bit rubbish, myself, on the fly.

--
Best advice:

Join a band together. Communicate that way

 

[LowEnd]

I sometimes think he has issues that he doesn't quite open up about completely, he hasnt talked about things in much detail

Get used to it.
His mind is no doubt a messy web of ifs, buts and maybes. Putting all that into a coherent format, I'd imagine, wouldn't be too easy for him. I've noticed about myself that unless the right questions are asked, I won't answer. For instance, if I've got a hundred things buzzing round my brain and someone asks "Whats up?", they'll get no more than glare and a sigh. How can a starting point be found in so much mess? Cut out the delicate approach and ask specific questions. Being an INTP means theres a good chance hes evaluated everything relevant already. So a specific question will already have a specific answer. Delivering a preexisting conclusion is much easier to him than wading through the acres of loose thought trying to fashion a 'useless' generalisation.

All this is fiercely subjective, but who knows, it might help.

 

[ESTP]

How long have been with him?

Well thats the thing...we're not together. I've only known him for 2 months, but it feels like 2 years or more. I feel like about 90% of the time we are on the same wavelenght.

We had a discussion previously, about our "relationship" or lack there of. We started out as friends, who quickly within a week became friends with benefits. But he was really sweet, really behaving like there was more to it. We text from first thing in the morning, to last thing at night, if were not on msn, or together, were sleeping. Lol....its very interesting. But the conversation we had, was that he was confusing me with being very affectionate, and lovey-dovey. I didnt say it in those terms..but thats the basics. I asked him where he think this is going, because i didnt want to assume and then get hurt if i was wrong in the end. His explanation was that a month before he met me ...so three months all together, he had ended a 5 yr relationship and didnt want to jump into another one. He asked me what i wanted from him, i said didnt know and that i wanted to ask him the same. He said "i want nothing from you but friendship" and then i went on to tell him thats fine, and i was just looking for an answer so i could be sure, and then he INSITSTED that i asnwer the same question, and i said, no thats not what i want at this point....so in order to not get hurt i told him that we will no longer be sleeping with each other and not doing anything that friends dont do. We hardly talked for a about a week, and we were pretty indifferent towards each other, about a week ago, we started talking again like we did before, and the next day we were back to the way we use to talk. If anything, infact it was even better. Then, we slept together again and that night (sunday) i found him a little more withdrawn than usual, so im thinking this is his "annalyzing mode"...i dont know what to make of it, i think perhaps he is confused? I dont know anymore really.

 

[colmena]

I'd be confused if you said you don't want to sleep together so that you don't get hurt, and then you sleep with him.

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*and breathe, and detach*
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The 'withdrawn' could be him worrying about your future together. i.e. he may be sympathetic that sleeping with you again has hurt you.

I may have misread, but it sounds like he's somewhat taking advantage of your romantic desires.

I do think there's a communication breakdown and personality clash, though. I would have a hard time dissociating your tactile, affectionate nature with sexual intimacy and inclination. To him, agreeing you're OK being friends and then being 'lovey-dovey' is likely read as mixed signals

I would explain to him how much stronger you feel about making love than a cuddle, and the potential for emotional damage the former can cause when not backed up with a sincere romantic commitment.

You may have to wait it out, but I suspect he will be willing to go back into another long-term relationship, given time.

He should also respect you more and know that you're serious when you follow up on your ultimatum. So long as you've made it clear that it's for substantial emotional reasons rather than social expectation/immature game-playing (I'm not saying he does think it's for superficial reasons, but certainly don't give him the option to. And be sincere in your own intentions; if you find yourself playing hard-to-get, for sex, just leave him alone; he wont understand and will become paranoid/insecure).

I don't think either of you are in the wrong, or that it couldn't work; there's just a lack of clarity and understanding. Natural desires and inclinations may have to be suppressed until you're both on the same page.

 

[INA]

I'd be confused if you said you don't want to sleep together so that you don't get hurt, and then you sleep with him.

Seriously. He told you he wants nothing more than friendship. Let him sort out himself before you get dragged into the mess.

 

[ESTP]

We have an intense mental/physpical attraction.
The sex is amazing. It's very hard for us not to, honestly, there's a major physical attraction which is based on common intellect. We share a deep passion for photography, and other media like music and movies. We have very parallel interests where JUST about everything is concerned, and just about the same opinion on all topics.


On a side note...
I think he may have hit my PoLR.

 

[INA]

Your what?

 

[Totenkindly]

Being TP certainly creates that fun issue where you can plan out the best strategy and think you know what you want and don't want... then end up both of you going with the flow and responding to events in the moment.

So it's understandable both of you impersonally might want different things, but when you get together, it's very easy for you to both to fly against your theoretical values and react to the situation instead.

PoLR = Point of Least Resistance?

 

[colmena]

On a side note...
I think he may have hit my PoLR.

Hopefully someone with some experience of a similar situation will respond, but I think you'll just have to be responsible for your own behaviour and put up with the consequences. I don't think there's a magic answer that will solve this.

 

[Totenkindly]

Hopefully someone with some experience of a similar situation will respond, but I think you'll just have to be responsible for your own behaviour and put up with the consequences. I don't think there's a magic answer that will solve this.

Probably. I don't think it will intellectually be puzzled out... especially because both of you have already shown that, while you tried to think through it all, you're both more responding just to the interaction and personal magnetism.

So if you want to do that, great; but you need to accept any pitfalls that come along with and ride out the rough spots.

 

[ESTP]

PoLR = Point of Least Resistance?

i dont know if mbti has similar concepts or not, but in socionics PoLR is defined as:

The place of least resistance is your weakest function. It makes you uncomfortable, and can be tied to certain personality problems you have. You won't make an issue about this function, in fact you try to avoid it. Criticism in this point is felt the worst.

 

[colmena]

Have you felt criticism?

Let us know and we'll try to address it. Sorry if I've come across at all offensive in trying to cover the angles. I'm only trying to help.

What's your plan of action with your man friend?

 

[ESTP]

ESTp's PoLR is Fi (introverted feeling) and my hidden agenda is to love (emotion). The reason I say he has hit is, is because I find him affecting my emotional state. I'm very aware of it because of him and I absolutley HATE basing my life on emotion instead of logic, so sometimes if he says something meaninglessly, I take it for something insulting, because I think he is being critical or judgemental...when in reality he just didnt use the right words to express himself.

(I know his type is the Critic, but he never, ever, criticises me or I never feel ACTUAL criticism/scorn from him, its just my lack of intuition when it comes to his Ti that makes me have false conjectures sometimes)

We've come to a stage, where he now recognizes that if he says something, and he thinks i will take it the wrong way he will automatically correct himself, or explain himself so that I would actually precieve it the way I can metabolize the information in the actual way it was meant.

So in that sense, I think that I'm hitting his PoLR at the same time which is his Fe (extroverted feeling)...meaning he is becoming aware of my emotions (however slowly it is), which is very hard for INTps to do (usually they get better at it in mid life). All this, in turn (I believe) I think relates to his hidden agenda which is to be in a relationship.

 

[ESTP]

Sorry if I've come across at all offensive in trying to cover the angles. I'm only trying to help.

No, I do not find you to be offensive at all. I actually appriciate whatever you have to say, whether it be in my favour or not, it will just help me in the long run. So thank you for that.

What's your plan of action with your man friend?

At the moment, honestly, I dont know. I care about him a lot, but I am leaving the military (we are both military) and moving back home to go to school which is two hrs away.

I have three weeks left before I leave, so my mentality is enjoy it while I can, and then keep in touch. I'm finding it harder and harder to keep that mentality because the more time I spend with him, the more I want to be with him.

I am flabberghasted almost by the situation, because I do not feel things this intesnly for most people. In fact, I am pretty indifferent to most emotions, and think they are a setback. I don't like relationships, and i have a serious fear of commitment. HOWEVER, I would honestly put all my fears aside and try with this man because when I think about me leaving and things ending as they are now...Its almost as though there's this tragic ending in a movie. It kind of reminds me of the movie Before Sunrise...it's pertty pathetic, if you'd told me I'd of felt this way 2-3 months ago I would have laughed in your face. AHHHH freakin PoLR.

So anyways, my plan of action is to just go with the flow until my time here is up. I will not decline to date other people during the course of three weeks while im here, because he clearly stated that he doesnt want a relationship earlier, and I understand that completely. However, I have needs too and I am not gonna pass up a possibly wonderful opertunity just because my head is stuck up my ass being head over heels for a guy who cannot fully reciprocate my feelings. I will not sleep with other people, because its just not how I roll, I dont usually care, but when I have feelings for someone I cannot fuck around.

I still have to mention however, even though he says he cannot be in a relationship, he exhibitis traist, even at times jelaousy, or almost an inquisitive nature when I am being indifferent about spending time with him. (which is just my way of being indisposable to him at all times)

 

[Totenkindly]

ESTp's PoLR is Fi (introverted feeling) and my hidden agenda is to love (emotion). The reason I say he has hit is, is because I find him affecting my emotional state. I'm very aware of it because of him and I absolutley HATE basing my life on emotion instead of logic, so sometimes if he says something meaninglessly, I take it for something insulting, because I think he is being critical or judgemental...when in reality he just didnt use the right words to express himself.

That makes sense. I don't like feeling out of control emotionally either, when my brain knows that nothing was probably meant by something; I like the sense of being engaged but still detached and not under thrall of the emotion state.

We've come to a stage, where he now recognizes that if he says something, and he thinks i will take it the wrong way he will automatically correct himself, or explain himself so that I would actually precieve it the way I can metabolize the information in the actual way it was meant.

That's a large positive in the sense of his intentions towards you, especially since some people like him would just expect you to "buck up" and not bother to tailor their comments in a way that was constructive. It's also a big sign of his ability to communicate, which is necessary for any LTR.

So in that sense, I think that I'm hitting his PoLR at the same time which is his Fe (extroverted feeling)...meaning he is becoming aware of my emotions (however slowly it is), which is very hard for INTps to do (usually they get better at it in mid life).

Well, Fe is not just emotions, it's the relational commitments involved in the interaction and respecting those boundaries (or breaking them) to "signal" to the other person(s) your own level of commitment and place in that community/relationship.

INTPs might perceive the emotions, but they usually also have a problem with seeing the Fe language as pointless or silly or inconsequential... so even when they're aware of it, there can be a tendency to be insensitive because they do not inwardly give it legitimacy.

The fact he is working to engage you in a way that affirms your unique nature is, again, a positive sign that he at least sees your concerns as legitimate.

Still, he's probably afraid of signaling more commitment to you than he might be able to handle and would rather stay aloof if possible. That's the weakness: Speaking "Fe" is uncomfortable because of the promises it inherently makes and thus the obligations it creates. Ti does not want to be bound by seemingly arbitrary relational agreements, it needs freedom to cut to the core of the situation at hand.

 

[INA]

I still have to mention however, even though he says he cannot be in a relationship, he exhibitis traist, even at times jelaousy, or almost an inquisitive nature when I am being indifferent about spending time with him. (which is just my way of being indisposable to him at all times)

He is just being a dude; do not read too much into it. It is not an INTP trait in particular.
As for your plan, it could backfire if you end up getting more involved emotionally. If you think you are capable of cutting things off after fully enjoying it while you can, go for it, but do not delude yourself into thinking you can if you really cannot.
You could use the time to distance yourself as well . . . not cold turkey necessarily, but wean yourself off. I would even say it is better if you could distance while being around him, so as not to create this instant dramatic pressure from wanting to see him, but denying yourself. If you can hack it that is.

 

[ESTP]

I'm very good at moving past people. It takes me a couple days and I'm fine, sometimes less than that...depending on the depth of the relationship, friendship etc. It doesn't take much for me to move on.

Especially if the person is not worthy of having my further time/interest. Something has to be equally lucerative for me in order for me to consider involoving myself into the next level so to speak.

 

[ESTP]

I hate to admit it, but I'm in love.

 

[Endolori]

Just providing another (maybe nonsensical) point of view here, do you think he may be lying when he says he doesn't want a relationship right now, and is just saying that to see if you're serious about it, since he just left a relationship and may have difficulty with self-esteem and his ability to hold on to somebody.

His being withdrawn may also have something to do with trying to stop things from escalating deeper while being confused about his self-esteem, so when you in turn withdraw he tries to draw you back?

Perhaps you can talk to him about his feelings or his past relationship to find out more.

I'm just conjecturing though.