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  1. #1
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    Default Is this an INTJ thing?

    Occasionally I have arguments or disagreements with an INTJ friend, and it often goes something like this. When he realizes I had proven him wrong about something, rather than just let it go, he tries some sort of mental maneuver tactic to try and convince me that I implied or said something I never actually said, so he can turn the argument around on me and convince me I am actually the wrong one. Basically, whenever we get involved with a discussion, I end up confused. Very confused. He's capable of making me feel like a complete idiot, even though at the same time I'm quite sure my reasoning is valid, and he's the one full of shit. I'm generally open minded to criticism or having people pick at my reasoning, in fact I welcome it and enjoy being proven wrong, but it seems like he just makes pointless points to make himself appear like the "winner" in some kind of game I wasn't even aware we were playing. Is this some kind of ego thing? Maybe it has nothing specifically to do with INTJ's, and it's just my friend's quirk in particular.

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    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdseye View Post
    Occasionally I have arguments or disagreements with an INTJ friend, and it often goes something like this. When he realizes I had proven him wrong about something, rather than just let it go, he tries some sort of mental maneuver tactic to try and convince me that I implied or said something I never actually said, so he can turn the argument around on me and convince me I am actually the wrong one. Basically, whenever we get involved with a discussion, I end up confused. Very confused. He's capable of making me feel like a complete idiot, even though at the same time I'm quite sure my reasoning is valid, and he's the one full of shit. I'm generally open minded to criticism or having people pick at my reasoning, in fact I welcome it and enjoy being proven wrong, but it seems like he just makes pointless points to make himself appear like the "winner" in some kind of game I wasn't even aware we were playing. Is this some kind of ego thing? Maybe it has nothing specifically to do with INTJ's, and it's just my friend's quirk in particular.
    He's an ENTP...

  3. #3
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    I do this to put others' reasoning abilities to the test sometimes, to see if they are confident if I were to manipulate the situation (I think it is an Nx-dom thing, possibly Ti dom as well) just for fun. Usually however, I honestly admit fault, but if the other person decides to bask in one of these rare opportunities, then I completely shut them down with tactics such as this and worse. Arguing is a game, to us at least, and we like to win games.

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    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I do this to put others' reasoning abilities to the test sometimes, to see if they are confident if I were to manipulate the situation (I think it is an Nx-dom thing, possibly Ti dom as well) just for fun. Usually however, I honestly admit fault, but if the other person decides to bask in one of these rare opportunities, then I completely shut them down with tactics such as this and worse. Arguing is a game, to us at least, and we like to win games.
    Perhaps its your ENTP shadow manifesting out of anger\stress of defeat...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Perhaps its your ENTP shadow manifesting out of anger\stress of defeat...
    Could be, as my first instinct is to admit that I am wrong (though excessively bitterly, calling a Te user wrong is like telling us that we are lying or fraudulent, for we actually believe our knowledge is universal truth). I do see arguments as a bit of a game though, but I usually play them civilly and justly.

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    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Could be, as my first instinct is to admit that I am wrong (though excessively bitterly, calling a Te user wrong is like telling us that we are lying or fraudulent, for we actually believe our knowledge is universal truth). I do see arguments as a bit of a game though, but I usually play them civilly and justly.
    An ENTP friend of mine acts the way OP described not out of anger but for the fun of it...for the thrill of being successful in getting away with it...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    An ENTP friend of mine acts the way OP described not out of anger but for the fun of it...for the thrill of being successful in getting away with it...
    Yeah, that's a different stance. I argue to be proven right, not to win, it just so happens that being proven right will be synonymous with winning an argument. I often argue simply to synthesize my information as well, as that is how we digest information (through explaining it and applying it in a certain format that appeals to others).

  8. #8
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    @Alea_iacta_est

    ENTP 3

  9. #9
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nights and Days View Post
    Easily plausible, though my natural state is still bounded by Te and Ni. (If I were an ENTP, I'd be an ENTP 4.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    I often argue simply to synthesize my information as well, as that is how we digest information (through explaining it and applying it in a certain format that appeals to others
    This part seems pretty clearly Ni-dom + Je-aux to me.

    Re the OP: @birdseye, there's something in what you wrote that - if your friend is INTJ, which I don't know one way or another so far from the discussion - anyway, assuming he's INTJ and you're correctly typed as INTP, there might possibly be a parallel to an experience that my INFP has with me (INFJ) and how Ni shows up. I mention this possible parallel because parallel dynamics between INxPs and INxJs have emerged in at least one other discussion I've had here. I'm not at all sure if there's a parallel here, but just in case there might be, some thoughts behind the spoiler:



    I really have no idea if any of this is relevant, though.

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