[MBTI General] Why do INTJs spare INFPs their wrath?

[lulabelle]

Any MBTI type can be a 6, in fact the only Enneatype that has a significant correlation to MBTI is 5.

As 6s are more common than, say, 4s and 9s, I would expect there to be quite a few INFP 6s floating around. They have probably just mistyped.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/50d433d5bf4c038a442081f744065093/tumblr_moaalulBiB1sq3u8zo1_1280.jpg

this chart seems pretty accurate IMO. the most common enneagram types for INFP are 4w5 and 9w1

 

[BadOctopus]

Cause we likes them.

This. I like INFPs because they're quiet and sweet and peaceful and they avoid drama. And I find their foolish idealism absolutely adorable. (Also, I suppose their innate goodness keeps me from becoming too cynical.)

 

[lulabelle]

i feel like i've mainly read criticism by INTJs about INFPs, so....

 

[Coriolis]

i feel like i've mainly read criticism by INTJs about INFPs, so....

But that's how we show that we care.

 

[lulabelle]

But that's how we show that we care.

i should clarify: not exactly criticism. more like proclamations of hatred. contrastingly, you only really hear good things about ENFPs by INTJs

i'm at least partially aware that you were being partially facetious. at least.

 

[Raffaella]

This is that the INFP is "liable to" (subject to, not "must" or "always will") get temporarily drowned in the flood of their own emotion,
or to be so awed in contemplation of the beauty, horror, or quintessence of life (or some aspect of it which they're emotionally riveted to for the moment), or to be so caught up in the whirlwind chain of Ne free-association; or hammering out the last link in their gossamer internal-values chain-mail (hidden like mithril under their external facing fairy wings) to the point that they cannot effectively WIELD their Te for some particular period of time. The immovable intellect of the INTJ outer shell provides them something to grasp onto, to pull out of the raging current, catch their waterlogged breath, and start up their *own* Te motor, and join the real world -- whether in quest of goals, exuding vast quantities of magical healing rays to those in need, manifesting the rarely glimpsed but often hoped for "sunshine-n-silliness" (still mythical, in my own experience, but I haven't *quite* given up hope), or even (horror of horrors!) paying the bills or catching up on the dishes.

The immoveable intellect of the INTJ? What is this? A Jane Austen Novel?

And then, just when you think an INFP is a big fluffy ball of cotton candy, you discover that lurking underneath, is a mind of tempered steel, just as sharp, just as fast, and *almost* as relentless as your own.

Are you serious? Again, you're saying that INFPs can never be more shrewd or determined than INTJs.

No higher praise can be given.

You should reread what you've written, it's very patronising.

 

[Raffaella]

I find with ISFPs and INTPs, the conversation is more two-sided and essentially we can talk for longer periods with no goal in mind. With INTJs, they'll only start a conversation with something in mind and therefore appear less friendly and receptive. My INTJ friend is mostly a listener, would listen to the those around him and respond accordingly (similar to ENTJs) so I did a lot more talking. Not that it bothered me, just that being e9, I'm accustomed to avoiding the spotlight and absorbing feelings and thoughts.

I also find with INTJs, which contrasts sharply to ISTJs, is that we tend to have similar social and political views however it manifests differently. They tend to challenge systems, I tend to bring attention to the injustices through supporting the underdog.

I think we feel more respect for others than they often credit us with, largely because we express it in ways they are not used to, and perhaps find unpleasant.

I noticed with my friend that he was diligent with messages even though he knew how inconsistent and flaky I was. Is that how you express it, though commitment?

 

[grey_beard]

The immoveable intellect of the INTJ? What is this? A Jane Austen Novel?

You don't find INTJs in your experience to be stubborn as a donkey on steroids?

Are you serious? Again, you're saying that INFPs can never be more shrewd or determined than INTJs.

Perhaps they can, internally -- I know a couple of INFPs, and have gotten a rare glimpse under the hood at their minds working. Ye cats.
But to the external world, they don't give *any* indication of it.
As far as the relentless, I find the INFP resembles an INTP in their, well, *depth* of sounding things out, for something which is an INFP value. INTPs do this for logical definitions of systems, but again, only for particular topics of interest.
The INTJ doesn't dive as deep, formally, but tends to suck in everything like a Hoover. It was in the sense of *NEVER* stopping, that I meant relentless.

You should reread what you've written, it's very patronising.

I re-read it. It was written, as it were, for other INTJs who *wrongly adjudge* INFPs to have no Te, no capability for rational thought.
And, since INTJs have the reputation of "masterminds" and pride themselves on such -- for an INTJ to give blanket praise to another MBTI type, for that type's intellectual capability,
that *is* high praise.

Look, if you're looking for gushing, effusive language, an INTJ is probably a poor choice. Until you get into their marshmallow fluff.

 

[grey_beard]

Whelp, this thread sure got depressing! Ahh it would be so nice to be an INFJ--- always spared the scathing anecdotes and criticism

Paging [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] -- we have a report of someone praising INFJs on aisle #51 .

 

[grey_beard]

...
You should reread what you've written, it's very patronising.

Geez Louise, I thought I correctly captured the best points of the INFP ...
"caught up in the whirlwind chain of Ne free-association; or hammering out the last link in their gossamer internal-values chain-mail (hidden like mithril under their external facing fairy wings)"

mithril is rare, and precious; and it is the very CORE of the INFP.

 

[grey_beard]

i should clarify: not exactly criticism. more like proclamations of hatred. contrastingly, you only really hear good things about ENFPs by INTJs

i'm at least partially aware that you were being partially facetious. at least.

Hatred? Bah! INFPs are catnip.

 

[Raffaella]

You don't find INTJs in your experience to be stubborn as a donkey on steroids?

I have more of an issue with the rest of your ideas, the notion that INFPs need thinkers to do everything for them. Too condescending and typist.

Perhaps they can, internally -- I know a couple of INFPs, and have gotten a rare glimpse under the hood at their minds working. Ye cats.
But to the external world, they don't give *any* indication of it.
As far as the relentless, I find the INFP resembles an INTP in their, well, *depth* of sounding things out, for something which is an INFP value. INTPs do this for logical definitions of systems, but again, only for particular topics of interest.
The INTJ doesn't dive as deep, formally, but tends to suck in everything like a Hoover. It was in the sense of *NEVER* stopping, that I meant relentless.

I'm glad you clarified. It's true, we rarely share it with people, I'm not sure why to be honest; everyone is always surprised when I give indications that I'm not as banal as I appear.

I re-read it. It was written, as it were, for other INTJs who *wrongly adjudge* INFPs to have no Te, no capability for rational thought.
And, since INTJs have the reputation of "masterminds" and pride themselves on such -- for an INTJ to give blanket praise to another MBTI type, for that type's intellectual capability,
that *is* high praise.

So arrogant (you are forgiven, though).

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think an INFP or ISFP 6w7 sx/sp would be my ideal girlfriend.

I suspect i'm drawn to them because we can relate to each other well (Fi) and they aren't very confrontational...

sx 6s are confrontational people. That's the counter-phobic type, and it's more likely an ISFP than any other IxFx type. The obsequious variety you may seek is likely the sp/so 6, who acts like a harmless, non-threatening puppy to get people on their side. Maybe some are sp/sx with weaker sx. The sp instinctual type is the phobic 6 who is less rigid than the so type. Odds of being ISFJ if an IxFx type is high. INFP 6s are not that common, IMO, and I think the mistyping is more often the MBTI type than the enneagram type.

Paging [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] -- we have a report of someone praising INFJs on aisle #51 .

Nah...I know a backhanded "compliment" when I see one

It's hard to praise an INFP, because you must find the "right" reason for praise or it will not be interpreted as a compliment. It's pretty bad how we devalue other's valuations of ourselves unless it meets our criteria for "meaningful"...

Both IxFP types will also note what is NOT said as much as what is said, and it's this reading in-between the lines that partly accounts for our infamous sensitivity. Example: You praise an IxFP. Nowhere do you mention, say, intellect. IxFP may think, "Oh, they like despite thinking I'm stupid; how patronizing is that!". Then you praise the IxFP and say nothing of appearance, then they may think, "So, what then? I'm a toad?!". Okay, it's not really that bad, and it mostly only applies when someone is giving a reason that is meant to encompass our entire person, so if it sounds too one-dimensional then it tends to feel dismissive almost.

 

[rav3n]

Archetypal male/female energy, where the INTJ doesn't feel threatened.

 

[Coriolis]

i should clarify: not exactly criticism. more like proclamations of hatred. contrastingly, you only really hear good things about ENFPs by INTJs

i'm at least partially aware that you were being partially facetious. at least.

You are correct that I was only partially facetious. If we don't care about someone we won't bother to criticise them (unless they are getting in our way somehow), because we have no interest in their self-improvement and don't care if they shoot themselves in the foot making bad choices, etc.

I noticed with my friend that he was diligent with messages even though he knew how inconsistent and flaky I was. Is that how you express it, though commitment?

Commitment is a big part of it. I try to follow through on every single commitment I make, but if I don't respect someone, I won't make that commitment to begin with. Another part is the criticism lulabelle was referencing above. When I respect someone, I take what they say and think seriously. I will consider it equally seriously and give it my best response. Often this takes the form of analysis or criticism, if I see something they may have overlooked or feel I can offer additional insights/information. As part of that respect, I assume they are open-minded enough to take in this information, and evaluate it for usefulness to them. Again, if I don't respect or care about someone, I won't bother.

 

[grey_beard]

sx 6s are confrontational people. That's the counter-phobic type, and it's more likely an ISFP than any other IxFx type. The obsequious variety you may seek is likely the sp/so 6, who acts like a harmless, non-threatening puppy to get people on their side. Maybe some are sp/sx with weaker sx. The sp instinctual type is the phobic 6 who is less rigid than the so type. Odds of being ISFJ if an IxFx type is high. INFP 6s are not that common, IMO, and I think the mistyping is more often the MBTI type than the enneagram type.



Nah...I know a backhanded "compliment" when I see one

It's hard to praise an INFP, because you must find the "right" reason for praise or it will not be interpreted as a compliment. It's pretty bad how we devalue other's valuations of ourselves unless it meets our criteria for "meaningful"...

Both IxFP types will also note what is NOT said as much as what is said, and it's this reading in-between the lines that partly accounts for our infamous sensitivity. Example: You praise an IxFP. Nowhere do you mention, say, intellect. IxFP may think, "Oh, they like despite thinking I'm stupid; how patronizing is that!". Then you praise the IxFP and say nothing of appearance, then they may think, "So, what then? I'm a toad?!". Okay, it's not really that bad, and it mostly only applies when someone is giving a reason that is meant to encompass our entire person, so if it sounds too one-dimensional then it tends to feel dismissive almost.

Duly noted, as you have described of yourself elsewhere -- NO personal affront intended there; rather, praise for both your consistency, self-knowledge and self-disclosure.
The only drawback is that the INTJ laser fires at one target at a time: implying that either the INTJ should "save up" compliments and unleash a blizzard of them all at once, overwhelming the INFP defenses ("well, they left out .. drat! OK, they forgot...darn! Oh, *I* know, they didn't mention...heck! (pause) ...hmm, and the compliments are all sincere, too, is there a chance they really *mean* it?")...or perhaps, reveal marshmallow fluff more quickly than normal. (Fortunately, INFPs are good at evaporating armor, so this might be a good bet.)

Not that INTJs are typically very good at giving more than one compliment per person per century...

 

[Coriolis]

The only drawback is that the INTJ laser fires at one target at a time: implying that either the INTJ should "save up" compliments and unleash a blizzard of them all at once, overwhelming the INFP defenses ("well, they left out .. drat! OK, they forgot...darn! Oh, *I* know, they didn't mention...heck! (pause) ...hmm, and the compliments are all sincere, too, is there a chance they really *mean* it?")...or perhaps, reveal marshmallow fluff more quickly than normal. (Fortunately, INFPs are good at evaporating armor, so this might be a good bet.)

Not that INTJs are typically very good at giving more than one compliment per person per century...

But you haven't defined a target size. Plus, you are not taking into account repetition rates or beam expanding techniques (or multiplexing or . . . )

More seriously, though, I prefer a strategy of making the compliment so singular and specific, that it touches on only one small aspect of the person's qualities. It's unlikely that even an INTJ thinks all the others are bad, so in the end it means I've simply chosen to single out one thing, perhaps prompted by the circumstances (e.g. compliment the artwork of someone who gave me a hand-drawn card.)

 

[grey_beard]

I find with ISFPs and INTPs, the conversation is more two-sided and essentially we can talk for longer periods with no goal in mind. With INTJs, they'll only start a conversation with something in mind and therefore appear less friendly and receptive. My INTJ friend is mostly a listener, would listen to the those around him and respond accordingly (similar to ENTJs) so I did a lot more talking. Not that it bothered me, just that being e9, I'm accustomed to avoiding the spotlight and absorbing feelings and thoughts.

I also find with INTJs, which contrasts sharply to ISTJs, is that we tend to have similar social and political views however it manifests differently. They tend to challenge systems, I tend to bring attention to the injustices through supporting the underdog.



I noticed with my friend that he was diligent with messages even though he knew how inconsistent and flaky I was. Is that how you express it, though commitment?

Yes. If you in an INTJ's good graces (even though all you see is the infamous 'death stare'), then yes, look for steadfast loyalty. Unlike the ENFP, we are not flighty: we have already adjudged the odds before deciding to give of our time and effort.

 

[lulabelle]

Hatred? Bah! INFPs are catnip.

haha maybe to you. the main takeaways from INTJ NFP compatibility discussions seem to be ENFP=very very good + INFP=very very bad. i have definitely come across some positive INFP-INTJ from the INTJ side but they aren't that common. i suppose it makes sense... INFPs and INTJs are both pretty introverted introverts and i can see how for that reason and others, communication might break down.

 

[lulabelle]

Hatred? Bah! INFPs are catnip.

oop double post