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  1. #1
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Default There's an ENTP in my life, help!

    I mean, help, please. I need to understand what's going on in the other person's head.

    One of the sifus I trained under has taken a personal interest in my school. I understand he is proud and feels that whether it succeeds or fails, it is somehow a reflection on him. He truly knows martial arts, but he doesn't know art or music or how to talk to the public without offending them. I'm fairly certain he's an ENTP. I DO want him to be proud and to feel a part of things, but I don't want him to come in and try to take over. I respect him, but I've checked out some of his suggestions and found them to be faulty and gone ahead, done the research and established things as I see best. My very close INTJ friend tells me to just do it my way because ENTP had a shot and blew it, but INTJs not the one having to deal with him, I am.

    My question to ExTPs is this: how do I show him the proper respect, yet communicate truthfully without hurting him, because for all his tough exterior, I believe his emotions and ego to be vulnerable and I have no wish to hurt or offend him. So, as for you,how do you wish people would communicate to you when you're overstepping your boundaries? I want to keep him as my friend but I don't want him to sabotage what I've worked hard to build. It almost looks like he wants to take credit for my endeavors so that he can own bragging rights.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    I mean, help, please. I need to understand what's going on in the other person's head.

    One of the sifus I trained under has taken a personal interest in my school. I understand he is proud and feels that whether it succeeds or fails, it is somehow a reflection on him. He truly knows martial arts, but he doesn't know art or music or how to talk to the public without offending them. I'm fairly certain he's an ENTP. I DO want him to be proud and to feel a part of things, but I don't want him to come in and try to take over. I respect him, but I've checked out some of his suggestions and found them to be faulty and gone ahead, done the research and established things as I see best. My very close INTJ friend tells me to just do it my way because ENTP had a shot and blew it, but INTJs not the one having to deal with him, I am.

    My question to ExTPs is this: how do I show him the proper respect, yet communicate truthfully without hurting him, because for all his tough exterior, I believe his emotions and ego to be vulnerable and I have no wish to hurt or offend him. So, as for you,how do you wish people would communicate to you when you're overstepping your boundaries? I want to keep him as my friend but I don't want him to sabotage what I've worked hard to build. It almost looks like he wants to take credit for my endeavors so that he can own bragging rights.
    being polite and socially respectful isn't going to help you, but openly talk to him about these will:
    I've checked out some of his suggestions and found them to be faulty and gone ahead, done the research and established things as I see best
    in the later part of my military service i had a superior officer that despite disagreeing with me a lot of the times, and yes, sometimes having good points i didn't quite think of or a better grasp of the military system a large, was able to openly debate with me and reason our decisions as a unit, changing his mind when i brought points he didn't think about and brainstorming solutions and plans of actions together. i admit i didn't show my respects in the standard ways (which he probably should have court martialed me for), but he earned my respect a dozen times over, and when he needed my support he had it beyond the line of duty (i basically got people to "understand" that it's of their best interest to see him promoted).

    getting blind obedience from me is nearly impossible to come by, and demanding it is a sure way to lose my respect (as i will tend to suspect that if you don't demonstrate your reasoning its because its faulty reasoning), but open discussion is showing me respect and in turn inviting mutual respect. personally i don't experience doubt as a form of disrespect, rather i enjoy the experience of someone bringing problems and aspects i didn't think of to the table *.


    * btw this isn't a rational process, it's more so that the ability to mentally stimulate & challenge me is something i gravitate towards (engaging the dominant function and all that jazz), so i become naturally biased towards finding reasons to respect that person, whether i am aware of it at the time or not.

  3. #3
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    Destroy him. He'll be better for it. If he cannot compost himself into something valuable afterwards he isn't worth the concern.

    Also, let me join your school and live somewhere in the wild. Heh.

  4. #4
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Tell him how proud you are of what you've accomplished with his help. Tell him how excited you are these days with all you're doing on your own, how good it feels, etc. You could tell him you appreciate his thoughts, and if you can use the ideas he has, you will and appreciate it. If he doesn't read between those lines, you may want to re-think his type.
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  5. #5
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    are we going for ego stroke? make him think you're ideas are ideas you got from him. its risky but if you can do it...

  6. #6
    Just a note... LittleV's Avatar
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    Their tertiary-Fe can be piercingly 'sweet'; it's almost as though they do not use it too well, but it would prominently show up through their emotional reactions because they do value Fe. So when they'd feel something, they'd almost have an instinctive need to allow it to be 'shown' somehow (like other Fe-users). For me, the best way to connect with them is often through observing their tertiary-Fe cues to see how to move forward, especially since Fe would be our strongest, common-valued function. Thus, depending on the person and the ever-changing situations... you'd likely have to attend to their moods.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    @Mane

    being polite and socially respectful isn't going to help you, but openly talk to him about these will:

    This is great advice. Thank you. I had hoped you would share some insight with me. And this is very helpful:
    getting blind obedience from me is nearly impossible to come by, and demanding it is a sure way to lose my respect (as i will tend to suspect that if you don't demonstrate your reasoning its because its faulty reasoning), but open discussion is showing me respect and in turn inviting mutual respect. personally i don't experience doubt as a form of disrespect, rather i enjoy the experience of someone bringing problems and aspects i didn't think of to the table *.
    So, that's what I've done, brought some issues to the table.

    * btw this isn't a rational process, it's more so that the ability to mentally stimulate & challenge me is something i gravitate towards (engaging the dominant function and all that jazz), so i become naturally biased towards finding reasons to respect that person, whether i am aware of it at the time or not.
    This is good to know and gives me a lot of hope. I have voiced (with internal butterflies) my thoughts to him. I don't think he liked hearing them, but I did what you suggested (via your story which gave me a lot to think about) and backed them with evidence. I was completely up front and honest with him over the phone. He got a little snippy and long-winded and started a verbal rant of sorts. BUT, I think you are right. In the longrun, I believe he will respect me for it. I will know in the next day or so how he took it because he is currently in route back to the states from Puerto Rico and he will have time to think about before we talk again.

    Destroy him. He'll be better for it. If he cannot compost himself into something valuable afterwards he isn't worth the concern.

    Also, let me join your school and live somewhere in the wild. Heh.
    Maybe it won't come to destruction. I would love for you to join my school and live in the wild!

    Tell him how proud you are of what you've accomplished with his help. Tell him how excited you are these days with all you're doing on your own, how good it feels, etc. You could tell him you appreciate his thoughts, and if you can use the ideas he has, you will and appreciate it. If he doesn't read between those lines, you may want to re-think his type.
    This is also good advice, so I've sent him a message, telling him that I value his advice and mentioned a couple of his ideas that I am using.

    Thank you so much for this feedback. I think this is what typology is for, discovering how to effectively communicate with people who think differently and learning that differing values don't have to form immovable road blocks. I'm a win-win kind of person and I am looking for the best way to keep him onboard without letting him drive the wagon.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  8. #8
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Hope I'm not too late with my offering. Going from experiences with my ENTP ex and my ESTP brother-in-law, if there are any tasks or areas in which his help or advice would be appreciated and useful, make sure to let him know, and then follow through in including him when those situations come up. Otherwise, I agree with speaking honestly, respectfully, and sticking to rational arguments.

    I don't know if this is true for you, if it is, maybe you can explain that it's important for any student to be allowed to do things in their own way after a certain point, so that they can learn responsibility, and be allowed to grow from their mistakes. Also, if he taught you well, he needs to let you be independent, while being there if you need him, like any good parent/teacher.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  9. #9
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    are we going for ego stroke? make him think you're ideas are ideas you got from. its risky but if you can do it...
    Thank you, Mane, I know that I am fully capable of doing that, but I made a vow to myself as a teenager [upon realizing that I had completely manipulated a boy into doing things I wanted and later feeling horribly guilty about it] that I would never again manipulate others in order to make my life easier and I try very hard to always be honest with people, tactful as possible, but still non-deceptive. I don't know that I'm always successful, but that is always my aim. I prefer to be honest with him and have our future relationship be established on mutual respect and somehow if I manipulated him that way it would seem like I was disrespecting him. I like your original suggestions better. haha...I don't want to deceive people or play with their emotions. If he likes me I want it to be for real reasons and not a false ego built up by fabricated praise.

    Just read your spoiler...lamp shade hanger...hilarious.

    @LittleV Thanks. He does have a sweet side, but he can't show that in front of the guys. It's a country boy thing, I guess.

    Hope I'm not too late with my offering.
    You are not.

    Going from experiences with my ENTP ex and my ESTP brother-in-law, if there are any tasks or areas in which his help or advice would be appreciated and useful, make sure to let him know, and then follow through in including him when those situations come up. Otherwise, I agree with speaking honestly, respectfully, and sticking to rational arguments.
    Thank you Duely noted and I will remember.

    I don't know if this is true for you, if it is, maybe you can explain that it's important for any student to be allowed to do things in their own way after a certain point, so that they can learn responsibility, and be allowed to grow from their mistakes.
    ooh, I like that. Good point.

    Also, if he taught you well, he needs to let you be independent, while being there if you need him, like any good parent/teacher.
    Yes, I can tell him that and it will be completely honest!!! Because it's true.

    Thank you.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #10
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    Tell him how proud you are of what you've accomplished with his help. Tell him how excited you are these days with all you're doing on your own, how good it feels, etc. You could tell him you appreciate his thoughts, and if you can use the ideas he has, you will and appreciate it. If he doesn't read between those lines, you may want to re-think his type.
    I think this is the best approach. If it doesn't work, just be direct and tell him that this is a project which you want to do independently.

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