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  1. #111
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    I tend to not be aggressive because I don't want to push people away, not because I'm incapable of being aggressive.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  2. #112
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    yes and now, can be but usually when attacked... but in the main I can be very firm with people, sometimes a little T typed too much.

    I have an ENFP at work and I love her F'ness so much more cuddly than I am

    Lis

  3. #113
    Senior Member Winds of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I've been reading here and there where other types (particularly F's and S's) talk about ENTP's and saying that we're generally forceful, aggressive and assertive, implying it in a bad way.

    This strikes me as odd, because I've never thought of myself as an aggressive person. Assertive, certainly - I will be outspoken about things that piss me off, and I can be persuasive and I admit, manipulative too at times.

    However, the last thing that's ever on my mind is actually forcing people to do or think anything. Sometimes I do express myself perhaps more openly and assertively than some other people do, but it's not because I'm trying to force or persuade - I'm trying to be as clear as possible and I want people to push back and tell me things 'in no uncertain terms'. If they have a problem I want them to voice it, and if they voice it, I want to listen and understand and make any necessary changes to help them. When I ask 'What is your problem?' it's out of curiosity, not aggression or defensiveness.

    One of the things that frustrates me most about a friendship I have with an INFJ woman, is when things go all awry because apparently, something I've been doing has been upsetting her, but I've not known because she hasn't told me, so I've kept on doing it. I ask her in exasperation why on earth she didn't just say if she had a problem, and she says she was worried that I'd get mad or annoyed at her, and yet when she finally does say what the problem was, I always concede that she has a point, and apologise, and do what I can do improve things in the future, so I really don't know where she gets this idea from that I'm so aggressive and unapproachable...

    But, come to think of it, it seems the only people I can really rely on in my life to give me honest feedback in clear and unambiguous terms, without pulling punches (the way I like it) are two ENTJ's and an INTJ... and they don't exactly have great reputations for tact either...

    I'd be really interested to hear about other people's experiences with ENTP's and how we come across, as I fear some of it may be lost in translation and I'd like to be able to communicate with the people I know in a way that doesn't make them afraid of me! And I'd also like to know what ways I could use to more effectively get clear and honest feedback from the gentler types... after all, if the only frank advice I'm getting is from similarly assertive types, then it won't help me in dealing with the others and just might exacerbate the problem (if there even is one).
    You may be seeking efficiency in solving the problem..She may be a little stubborn...walk in her shoes emotionally with her..that way you both are right alongside each other and comfortable understanding each other. The thing to remember is to focus on how she sees things.

  4. #114
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Actually yes, this gets me constantly. It's always a sad day when we find out we've been bothering someone for a long time without really realizing it. We're generally outgoing and smart enough with our interests that people assume we can't possibly be emotionally stupid by accident, so they don't bother saying anything, and then it all blows up one day and we're left wondering what exactly went wrong.

    I find myself constantly asking people, "Why didn't you just tell me it bothered you??"

    And the answer is inevitably something stupid about how I should have "just known." And it almost always comes from someone high on too much Si and just seriously offended by our general disrespect toward traditions and rules. Often they can't even explain why they don't like us, other than "Well you're just too forceful and aggressive" (which often translates to, "You're right too often, stop it because it's making me feel inadequate!"), but strong Si dominants will tend to just tolerate us in the best of conditions--and absolutely hate us in the worst.

    Honestly it really sucks sometimes. Not only do I have to deal with being totally incompetent regarding a lot of real world responsibilities, I have to deal with people thinking it's personal or intentional, or somehow mean-spirited. I know I can be aggressive and forceful at times, but it's usually not as serious as some people seem to think it is.

    It's kind of a simultaneous blessing and curse. Currently I am suffering some negative consequences from it and it's shitty. Really shitty. But I'll probably appreciate it again the next time I create something really unique or interesting. Sometimes I wish I could just be ISFJ and sit at home never bothering anyone or causing any trouble.

    But I guess that's not me.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #115
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I'm also baffled abt argument question. Talking about the world events of the day, or whatever, does not mean you are looking for an argument, just a discussion. NFs want discussions about feelings *shudder*, I want discussions about events... Is that so wrong? I'm not challenging anyone. If I didn't care what someone has to say, I wouldn't initiate a conversation at all.
    You can't expect people to approach it that reasonably. That's the problem with ENTPs; we expect rationality from everyone and we get very petulant when others don't deliver. We're also really biting when we want to be, and have no problem calling people out when we see an issue.

    When allowed to relax and be ourselves, though, we are very calm and open. Our natural data-gathering and sorting process involves doing a lot of things that other types consider rude or uncalled for, and because our penchant for arguing gives us such a bad reputation, it's almost impossible to convince anyone that we don't really mean it in a hurtful way (usually).

    Honestly the more stupid crap I go through with other types the more I resent and begin to hate my own. NFs would rather avoid conflicts as long as possible, so we never know when we're bugging them until it's too late (at which point they invariably expect us to be emotional psychics and "just know" the problem! lolz); SJs simply dislike everything about our iconoclastic behavior and smart ass disregard for authority. (Only SPs seem to have a kind of live and let live existence with us, but neither of us understands the other very well.)

    It all comes down to this: ENTPs are the anti-Si, and that causes an awful lot of nasty problems in this SJ-driven world.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #116
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
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    ENTPs might think they are agressive and forceful, but in reality they are just being fluffy-cute .

  7. #117
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    I'm generally only forceful in presenting my arguments. I can be quite emphatic when I get onto something. However, I try only to make converts, not slaves, so I guess this would make me less forceful than say an ENTJ. I just don't have an interest in enforcing compliance with my directives. I want to make requests and have them carried out with minimal oversight.

    I can also be aggressive but again it is in a more distant, light manner. I like to dart in and cut someone then dance off again and watch their mouths drop open when they realize that not all smiling people are nice and that their blood looks funny when it pools at their feet.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  8. #118
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I don't think I'm aggressive or forceful, but people seem to think I am. I never understood why. I guess, I just don't use extraneous filler words and people need them somehow.

  9. #119
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    I think its because there very blunt and honest. I've noticed that when i "get extravated" i'm very honest and blunt and people are taken aback. Especially in arguments. My sis told me i was really aggressive to my dad the other day and i didn't realise i was just saying what i thought with usual bluntness!

  10. #120
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I don't think I'm aggressive or forceful, but people seem to think I am. I never understood why. I guess, I just don't use extraneous filler words and people need them somehow.
    They can tell that you have a steel rod running through you.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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