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  1. #91
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Well, you asked "If humanity is so proud of its conscience why would a higher role of conscious control over one's action be 'bad'\immoral?" which might have been a rhetorical question but my answer would be "It wouldn't be". I wasn't trying to imply it would, so I tried to clarify.


    EDIT:Oh and edited my previous post. Dunno if you saw it or not.
    I just like bouncing ideas with interesting people.

    And I'm often lazy with details cause i'm like 'it's all implied damn it', so you're right to underline these points.
    I tend to expect everybody to be a psychic\a deductive genius.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Why do you call someone an asshole then? I've seen you do it :P
    Mostly for fun\ an extreme simplification of my opinions 'caused by the universal tendency of matter to come back to a resting state
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  2. #92
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I just like bouncing ideas with interesting people.

    And I'm often lazy with details cause i'm like 'it's all implied damn it', so you're right to underline these points.
    I tend to expect everybody to be a psychic\a deductive genius.


    Mostly for fun\ an extreme simplification of my opinions 'caused by the universal tendency of matter to come back to a resting state
    My point being that what makes two different people tick is basically the same if you zoom close enough. (which you already know, only you might not).And all the...er.... reality-warping in the world won't change that. Self-consciousness can be like drowning in a BS buffet cooked by ourselves.

  3. #93
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    My point being that what makes two different people tick is basically (the same difference?) if you zoom close enough. (which you already know, only you might not).And all the...er.... reality-warping in the world won't change that. Self-consciousness can be like drowning in a BS buffet cooked by ourselves.
    Do you mean 'self difference' (I added it to your quote and will correct it if I got it wrong)

    If yes then:
    So we can say that if humans are all so alike: it's like saying that X+Y= 1 and only the values of X and Y change but the sum stays the same.
    agree?

    What about a more social vision of human society. Which is not purely factualy neutral but qualitative (I didn't say moral).
    There the values of " X " and " Y " do matter.

    This is why I used the example of consciousness, because it's one of the point that is supposed to make us radically different from other animals.
    I didn't say I agree by the way, I don't, but it's one of the things that are pretty much universally accepted in one way or another wether its being called awareness\understanding\consciousness\intelligence , the basic idea is the same: a will and capacity to interpret and modify our environnement using abstract concepts (more or less).
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #94
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I'm an INFJ who spends 10 hours a day with an ENTP. He's like a boxer, always up on his toes, dancing around, faking punches, wanting somebody/anybody to punch back. It's very impersonal energy and it comes across as slightly manic. To say it messes with my vibe would be putting it mildly. I can't think with someone around like that, and on top of it, when I know that he's going to argue with every single thing I say (my ENTP does this), I completely lose motivation to initiate conversation. So that's how a doe-eyed waiting-for-you-to-entertain-me passivity comes about.

    INFJ likes harmony more than we like to argue.

    Do you not notice from her body language that she's turning off, becoming overstimulated? She spends a lot of time watching you -- do you watch her? You have to actually interact with her rather than just display all the time. And I think the things you find exhiliarating in the world of discourse are not exhiliarating to her -- they make her tired.

    I think INFJ talks to share feelings and insights and it's a big deal to share with somebody else. ENTP doesn't take it as a big deal at all -- it's not self-disclosure -- as you said, you're embodying the idea you're exploring. But I think for INFJ, that is so impersonal it's almost impossible to respond to. If your conversations with her are not sometimes more personal, intimate, and genuinely relating on a feeling level, then she's going to feel unsatisfied and yeah, will at the least ask you to at least back off so she gets a rest from what feels like continually being stuck with a pin. It starts to feel like being talked at rather than with.

    (I could be entirely wrong and only talking about my own relationship, but anyway, hope it's helpful.)

    Oh, p.s. -- the only time my ENTP is at a pace I'm comfortable with is when he's been up for three days. :-D

  5. #95
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I really never got the point about ENTPs being constantly on the search for arguements. Either some guys mistype people or I am not an ENTP.

    ENTPs want harmony above it all. Harmony is when the system works, alle the knobs turn and the machine makes a sound while giving off steam.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #96
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I really never got the point about ENTPs being constantly on the search for arguements. Either some guys mistype people or I am not an ENTP.

    ENTPs want harmony above it all. Harmony is when the system works, alle the knobs turn and the machine makes a sound while giving off steam.
    that's coz ur a rational enfp
    *poke* *poke*

    I can be VERY acceptant, chilled out and so on. And I am most of the time. Well I'd like to keep talking but my dog wants to go out, brb
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  7. #97
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I wouldnt call it rational. I would call it to be at peace with yourself. Someone who is constantly challenging others, obviously has to compensate something. And I dont think to not do so automatically means that you are a logical rational.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  8. #98
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I wouldnt call it rational. I would call it to be at peace with yourself. Someone who is constantly challenging others, obviously has to compensate something. And I dont think to not do so automatically means that you are a logical rational.
    Yeah but then there's the concept of drive. The basic set of base instincts that come from our reptilian brain, those will get complexified following the neural pathways to the external evolutionary more rescent outskirts of the brain.
    1 base impulse will pass throw xxxxx neurons, connect and interact at different levels with other base impulse and so on.
    I'm not going to start about external stimuli because of course the brain is an input\output system but that'd make the explanation too long.

    So yeah you can define the 'peace with yourself' thing a stable and quasi self substained input\output. And a need to compensate would come from some sort of 'lack'.

    On the other hand the asumption that there's some ideal 'at peace' state is inherently wrong.
    Why?
    Because if you stay 'stable' in a biosphere that is built for competition, for the survival of the fittest, you'll soon be overthrown by the desire, the "will to power" of every other creature. This opposing force, in our society, is constituted of all the other human or rather their will to power, their desire to thrive.

    The need to conquer and to challenge is in fact, the very property of every human and every living creature.
    And the ability to do so is what causes some creatures and species to survive rather than others. Including the human species.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  9. #99
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I'm also baffled abt argument question. Talking about the world events of the day, or whatever, does not mean you are looking for an argument, just a discussion. NFs want discussions about feelings *shudder*, I want discussions about events... Is that so wrong? I'm not challenging anyone. If I didn't care what someone has to say, I wouldn't initiate a conversation at all.

  10. #100
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Yeah but then there's the concept of drive. The basic set of base instincts that come from our reptilian brain, those will get complexified following the neural pathways to the external evolutionary more rescent outskirts of the brain.
    1 base impulse will pass throw xxxxx neurons, connect and interact at different levels with other base impulse and so on.
    I'm not going to start about external stimuli because of course the brain is an input\output system but that'd make the explanation too long.

    So yeah you can define the 'peace with yourself' thing a stable and quasi self substained input\output. And a need to compensate would come from some sort of 'lack'.

    On the other hand the asumption that there's some ideal 'at peace' state is inherently wrong.
    Why?
    Because if you stay 'stable' in a biosphere that is built for competition, for the survival of the fittest, you'll soon be overthrown by the desire, the "will to power" of every other creature. This opposing force, in our society, is constituted of all the other human or rather their will to power, their desire to thrive.

    The need to conquer and to challenge is in fact, the very property of every human and every living creature.
    And the ability to do so is what causes some creatures and species to survive rather than others. Including the human species.
    Reads beautiful .

    Of course there is no such thing like being at peace with yourself. Especially not if you are insane in the membrane. But I dont have the urge to project that onto other people, to drag them down aswell into my pit of doom.

    Maybe that's the fact which makes me a rational entp or entj, I dont know
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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