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  1. #11
    Senior Member Langrenus's Avatar
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    ...and you haven't yet given your view yet Zhash.
    January has April's showers
    And 2 and 2 always makes a 5

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Langrenus View Post
    ...and you haven't yet given your view yet Zhash.
    I have several INTJ friends and we all experience it.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nottaprettygal View Post
    I probably am more numb than neutral. I feel quite unresponsive to the daily events that are going on around me. Things that evoke feeling in others, leave me feeling nothing. Not happy or sad. . . just nothing.

    It sounds depressing, but I prefer it to the occasional waves of emotion that I feel (usually when stressed). Perhaps in this sense, I do relate to the OP. Most of the time I feel nothing, but when that influx of emotion comes, it's pretty fucking intense. Then I deal with it and go back to being numb. Feelings are pretty much all or nothing for me.
    I'm exactly the same way. When I read about tragic events in the news, other people seem to get worked up about it, but I don't really understand why -- I'm rather calm, and sometimes I make jokes about them.

    In my life, this has even gone as far as actually witnessing a murder when I was visiting my mother. There were thugs that robbed a convenient store down the street and shot and killed one of the employees and a mother getting food for her newborn. I heard the gunshots and I looked outside and I saw the mother lying dead on the ground. But while other people seemed worked up, I really didn't experience feeling. I wasn't really even scared for my own well-being, to be honest. In some ways, I kinda felt the experience was intriguing. (And I'm not making this up, by the way.)

    But I have Asperger's Syndrome, and I sometimes wonder if there's a correlation between autistic spectrum disorder and the INTJ type -- there seems to be a connection between autism and Keirsey's description of the NT temperament.

  4. #14
    Senior Member logan235711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    ...[SNIP!]
    In the case of INTJ, it means that our deeply-held inner values are usually not as well developed as our Ni and Te. Consequently, it's possible that we can become alternatively petulant or grandiose depending on whether our values are being questioned or supported.

    I'm curious as to how other INTJs on this forum view this statement. Have you ever thought about how you view these shifts in perspective, e.g., highs/lows? Have you worried that you may have Bipolar tendencies or have you simply recognized this as part of who you are?
    Quote Originally Posted by Langrenus View Post
    [SNIP]particularly during my mid-teens (I would sail along blissfully and then something insignificant would affect me - I would become incredibly angered, literally going silent for 2-3 days...before my perspective shifted and I returned to making everyone laugh)[SNIPz]
    I think this is more along the lines of how I was when I was younger through my mid/late teens : ) I think more often then not, I would become worked up inside and because I wasn't as social I'm sure people didn't notice since we wouldn't be engaging for them to find out. Regardless, on an external front, I might have become worked up because as you threw out there Zhash "we can become alternatively petulant or grandiose depending on whether our values are being questioned or supported." may seem true as I might raise my voice more upon being questioned out things because at the time they seems so apparent to me as correct or simple to see that if someone else could not, I was more or less like 'give me a break' *eye roll :p* So I might have felt annoyed that it was not as apparent to them as it seemed to me, and as all INTJs know, we are know not to enjoy repeating ourselves and try to be as efficient at times as we can when communicating. So towards the extent of those latter two INTJ tendencies, I might have felt that the person was not being efficient themselves by using their 'brain' to piece the ideas I gave them together into the 'apparent' idea that I was holding--and perhaps on a very small account, because I felt like explaining more would have me repeating some smaller ideas again, or better annunciating the larger ones that were thread throughout the ideas that I was giving that I thought should have cropped up as apparent as I was giving these tidbits.

    In regards to someone agreeing with me, I might become internally excited as I was like 'finally! someone can see it my way!' and if it continued these internally feelings might manifest themselves as an external exuberance geared towards a motivation to dig into more about the person and ideas I was talking to and about respectively, to see how far the my investment of interest could go with the person and what I could get out of the conversation to better ideas I already had (e.g. that we might have had in common and have been talking about).

    I suppose a big part of getting over this is to reconcile the external emotions one picks up via the Fe function and relating those to ones own Fi more and using it to create and grow an INTJs Ni as well. From there, the use of emotions can be better appreciated and also harnessed into ideas that can begin to derive from them. Also, this might seem to help with Langrenus' comment about "would become incredibly angered, literally going silent for 2-3 days...before my perspective shifted" helping one to shift perspectives more often and have a better understanding of where the anger is stemming from (i.e. preventing these scenarios from happening as often, or at least on issues that might seem to more trivial).

  5. #15
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    The tertiary cognitive process of the INTJ is Introverted Feeling (Fi). It is referred to by Jung as, "child" or "Puer" meaning "boy" in Latin; puella meaning "girl". Jung used these terms to represent the archetypal child in us all. In this context, it means that the third position Cognitive Process is accessed in a "childlike" way. That is, it's not as well-developed as the top two (Ni and Te), and is prone to shifts in perspective, in Beebe's terms, it can be "inflated" or "deflated". Not as dramatic as manic-depressive mood swings, but somewhat similar.

    In the case of INTJ, it means that our deeply-held inner values are usually not as well developed as our Ni and Te. Consequently, it's possible that we can become alternatively petulant or grandiose depending on whether our values are being questioned or supported.

    I'm curious as to how other INTJs on this forum view this statement. Have you ever thought about how you view these shifts in perspective, e.g., highs/lows? Have you worried that you may have Bipolar tendencies or have you simply recognized this as part of who you are?
    I don't know that this is directly answering the question, but I'll more so comment just on thoughts, I guess.

    I was always extremely emotionally stable when I was younger; this past year or two I have certainly felt more emotional pulls due to my first real swings at Serious Facts of Life (1st experience with death of someone close to me, 1st time immersed in a foreign culture...) but I don't really feel that I have been moody so to question the chemical makeup of my brain activity.

    My dad is ENFP; he really worked hard on developing our consideration of others' feelings b/c it was something that a) my mom was sometimes unintentionally extremely poor at and b) one of his biggest goals for his children. (Every sibling squabble became a "how are you affecting this person's soul and identity by saying those things about them/treating them this way?" lol. He was so friendly about it, though, you'd think it would get annoying but he pulled it off.)

    I do certainly get flashes of anger and take this out on people when they don't deserve it. Mostly, these are due to the fact that I'm working on a project in my mind/researching on the internet/books and I feel like they're sucking me out of my reality when they come and ask me to do something so "unimportant".
    Or, if I'm stressed b/c I'm not feeling able to completely give my best to something (i.e. school) due to time constraints, and hten something like a family gathering is occurring, I get pretty pissed at people b/c I don't want to give my time to them.



    Maybe, to more directly answer the question... I find when I am "restructuring my inner mental framework" I behave in ways that make no sense to me. Irrational, would be an appropriate word, actually.
    I get snappy and moody a little bit when I'm trying to integrate a new meaningful piece of information and I have yet to lay my new foundations and find my footing.
    (Read: Introverted iNtuition is sort of like a framework for understanding that exists in the mind. As something is perceived, it is melded into the existing intuitive framework. If an entirely new piece of information is perceived by the Introverted iNtuitive, that person must redefine their entire framework of reference. So, Introverted iNtuitives are constantly taking in information about the world that needs to be processed in a relatively lengthy manner in order to be understood. That presents quite a challenge to the INTJ. It's not unusual for an INTJ to feel overwhelmed with all of the things that he or she needs to consider in order to fully understand an idea or situation. from INTJ Personal Growth)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  6. #16

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    I'm new here (joined today in fact!) and so many of the subtleties of the types are lost on me, but I am an INTJ and I definitely can be petulant or grandiose when my values are attacked/praised. Usually it's just a flash, gone in a minute or two. But I think I seem to take it as a judgement on my value as a person, since I generally think people are the collection of their values and actions.

  7. #17
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    The tertiary cognitive process of the INTJ is Introverted Feeling (Fi). It is referred to by Jung as, "child" or "Puer" meaning "boy" in Latin; puella meaning "girl". Jung used these terms to represent the archetypal child in us all. In this context, it means that the third position Cognitive Process is accessed in a "childlike" way. That is, it's not as well-developed as the top two (Ni and Te), and is prone to shifts in perspective, in Beebe's terms, it can be "inflated" or "deflated". Not as dramatic as manic-depressive mood swings, but somewhat similar.

    In the case of INTJ, it means that our deeply-held inner values are usually not as well developed as our Ni and Te. Consequently, it's possible that we can become alternatively petulant or grandiose depending on whether our values are being questioned or supported.

    I'm curious as to how other INTJs on this forum view this statement. Have you ever thought about how you view these shifts in perspective, e.g., highs/lows? Have you worried that you may have Bipolar tendencies or have you simply recognized this as part of who you are?
    Hahah... imagine the INFJs Ti or the ENFPs Te shifting like INTJs Fi...no wonder they are haunted by so many maddening thoughts that they themselves cant make sense of and are forced to reject them in favor of building their worldview on the edifice of Intuitions and Feelings...

    This is how Dostoevsky(INFJ) arrived at the conclusion that Russia is God's chosen nation and he is purposefully putting it through all the suffering that it has undergone and it will soon reign as God's empire of the world where Jesus himself shall descend!

    Or what about Tolstoy's theory of history... thats sheer philosophical Caliban...

    At least ENFJs and INFPs know well enough to reject many of their unreasonable thoughts... but the INFJs and ENFPs have their Thinking high-up enough to actually take it seriously with supreme confidence that emanates from their Intuition...

    Generally the tertiary function tends to fall slave to the superior and the auxiliary..this often happens even with well-developed types..
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #18
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMWarner View Post
    I'm new here (joined today in fact!) and so many of the subtleties of the types are lost on me, but I am an INTJ and I definitely can be petulant or grandiose when my values are attacked/praised. Usually it's just a flash, gone in a minute or two. But I think I seem to take it as a judgement on my value as a person, since I generally think people are the collection of their values and actions.


    (fresh meat!)
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post


    (fresh meat!)
    Ivy, It's so nice to hear from you on this thread.

  10. #20
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhash View Post
    Ivy, It's so nice to hear from you on this thread.
    I've known FMWarner for longer than I've known any of you people, so I can greet him in your thread if I wish.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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