• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[INTJ] Explain to me how INTJ's can do this

W

WhoCares

Guest
I spent most of my classroom hours reading fantasy novels then scanning books on my own to pass the tests. I like to see the end result first then go back and pick up the nuts and bolts that makes it work. I don't need laboured explanations in sequential order, when I encounter that I go daydreaming until they get to the end bit then tune back in. So yeah I guess I am visual/spatial. I hate being 'taught'.

The most enjoyable course I've ever done was a practical arts course where a technique was demonstrated then we were set loose to tinker on our own and come up with the end result. Loved that style of learning.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I spent most of my classroom hours reading fantasy novels then scanning books on my own to pass the tests. I like to see the end result first then go back and pick up the nuts and bolts that makes it work. I don't need laboured explanations in sequential order, when I encounter that I go daydreaming until they get to the end bit then tune back in. So yeah I guess I am visual/spatial. I hate being 'taught'.

The most enjoyable course I've ever done was a practical arts course where a technique was demonstrated then we were set loose to tinker on our own and come up with the end result. Loved that style of learning.

Hmmm, sound vaguely familiar, why I did well in technical drawings. As you said, I want the end picture first, and then I will drill down.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
I spent most of my classroom hours reading fantasy novels then scanning books on my own to pass the tests. I like to see the end result first then go back and pick up the nuts and bolts that makes it work. I don't need laboured explanations in sequential order, when I encounter that I go daydreaming until they get to the end bit then tune back in. So yeah I guess I am visual/spatial. I hate being 'taught'.

The most enjoyable course I've ever done was a practical arts course where a technique was demonstrated then we were set loose to tinker on our own and come up with the end result. Loved that style of learning.

Same with me except I either read the dictionary or history books. My teachers did not care because it didn't affect my grades and they always liked me. Hehe.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
So in other words, you are almost completely lost in a college course until you get to the end, in which time you start making A's? How does that work?
You are dealing in the wrong units. A single university course will cover multiple concepts, and the process I outlined will apply to each one. I will attend lecture, read the chapter, read over my class notes, perhaps work though some problem sets. I might even be successful at the homework, but this will be using what I consider dumb, brute force techniques: follow the recipes in the book, get someone to explain how they do it. Then something will cause me to just "get it". Perhaps revisiting an earlier problem, or just looking at one with fresh eyes, or reading a different explanation. The sum total of what I have seen (I can't say "absorbed" yet) will come together, and then I will be explaining it to other people. That being said, the first thing I used to do when starting a new class is to read the syllabus end to end; and upon getting a new textbook, scanning the table of contents. Having that context makes me much more comfortable.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
You are dealing in the wrong units. A single university course will cover multiple concepts, and the process I outlined will apply to each one. I will attend lecture, read the chapter, read over my class notes, perhaps work though some problem sets. I might even be successful at the homework, but this will be using what I consider dumb, brute force techniques: follow the recipes in the book, get someone to explain how they do it. Then something will cause me to just "get it". Perhaps revisiting an earlier problem, or just looking at one with fresh eyes, or reading a different explanation. The sum total of what I have seen (I can't say "absorbed" yet) will come together, and then I will be explaining it to other people. That being said, the first thing I used to do when starting a new class is to read the syllabus end to end; and upon getting a new textbook, scanning the table of contents. Having that context makes me much more comfortable.

That happened to me when I studied accounting. Almost the whole year I got bad grades and then suddenly I got it. Even the teacher was amazed, thinking there was no hope left for me. :happy2:
I think it had something to do with that end goal, I want to know what the end goal is. To justify why I am learning it. Where as the sequential guys would form their own opinion. I want to know what the end result is first before I start off.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm a CPA and I swear I didn't really understand accounting until after I started studying for the CPA exam, AFTER college. The way it's taught in school is broken down by subjects. At least my professors didn't link how each class relates to each other. I did what I needed to do to pass and get decent grades, but once they put all the pricincples in one book, I learned those, and brought them down to the individual topics. I Aced that test.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
AUDITORY-SEQUENTIAL------------------------------------VISUAL-SPATIAL
•Thinks primarily in words ------------------------------- Thinks primarily in pictures
•Has auditory strengths ---------------------------------Has visual strengths
•Relates well to time ------------------------------------Relates well to space
•Is a step-by-step learner ------------------------------ Is a whole-part learner
•Learns by trial and error---------------------------------Learns concepts all at once
•Progresses sequentially from easy to difficult material-----Learns complex concepts easily; struggles with easy skills
•Is an analytical thinker--------------------------------- Is a good synthesizer
•Attends well to details----------------------------------Sees the big picture; may miss details
•Follows oral directions well------------------------------Reads maps well
•Does well at arithmetic----------------------------------Is better at math reasoning than computation
•Learns phonics easily------------------------------------Learns whole words easily
•Can sound out spelling words----------------------------Must visualize words to spell them
•Can write quickly and neatly ----------------------------Prefers keyboarding to writing
•Is well-organized--------------------------------------- Creates unique methods of organization
•Can show steps of work easily---------------------------Arrives at correct solutions intuitively
•Excels at rote memorization----------------------------- Learns best by seeing relationships
•Has good auditory short-term memory------------------- Has good long-term visual memory
•May need some repetition to reinforce learning----------- Learns concepts permanently; is turned off by drill and repetition
•Learns well from instruction----------------------------- Develops own methods of problem solving
•Learns in spite of emotional reactions------------------- Is very sensitive to teachers’ attitudes
•Is comfortable with one right answer--------------------Generates unusual solutions to problems
•Develops fairly evenly---------------------------------- Develops quite asynchronously
•Usually maintains high grades ---------------------------May have very uneven grades
•Enjoys algebra and chemistry--------------------------- Enjoys geometry and physics
•Learns languages in class-------------------------------Masters other languages through immersion
•Is academically talented--------------------------------Is creatively, mechanically, emotionally, or technologically gifted
•Is an early bloomer-------------------------------------Is a late bloomer

One of my old bosses would laugh at me whenever I recollected. In my mind, I made patterns & maps to understand our process and transaction flows. Whenever discussing them, I'd look up and point to where we were in the process....I thought it was normal.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Same with me except I either read the dictionary or history books. My teachers did not care because it didn't affect my grades and they always liked me. Hehe.
lol, you read the dictionary in class, too? Anyway, thread applies to me, too, and I commend OP for putting it more concisely than I ever can.

Teachers who liked me were the ones who realized that lectures did nothing for me. In college, I just stopped going to them when it was an option, to no negative effect. In the event that learning it my own way outside of lecture doesn't work, going through the concept one-on-one with somebody is magic.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
You are dealing in the wrong units. A single university course will cover multiple concepts, and the process I outlined will apply to each one. I will attend lecture, read the chapter, read over my class notes, perhaps work though some problem sets. I might even be successful at the homework, but this will be using what I consider dumb, brute force techniques: follow the recipes in the book, get someone to explain how they do it. Then something will cause me to just "get it". Perhaps revisiting an earlier problem, or just looking at one with fresh eyes, or reading a different explanation. The sum total of what I have seen (I can't say "absorbed" yet) will come together, and then I will be explaining it to other people. That being said, the first thing I used to do when starting a new class is to read the syllabus end to end; and upon getting a new textbook, scanning the table of contents. Having that context makes me much more comfortable.

Okay so that makes sense. How fast do you generally catch onto these concepts? Is it slow or fast?

That happened to me when I studied accounting. Almost the whole year I got bad grades and then suddenly I got it. Even the teacher was amazed, thinking there was no hope left for me. :happy2:
I think it had something to do with that end goal, I want to know what the end goal is. To justify why I am learning it. Where as the sequential guys would form their own opinion. I want to know what the end result is first before I start off.

lol, that's crazy.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
I get life shattering "aha" moments all the time, but then I suddenly realize I don't give a shit anymore.

/estp problems
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Okay so that makes sense. How fast do you generally catch onto these concepts? Is it slow or fast?
Depends on the concept. The actual moment of understanding is quick, but it varies in how much study leads up to it.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
So obviously the more you study, the more you understand, right?
Not necessarily. It varies in how much study needs to happen (e.g. how much exposure to various aspects of the concept). It's not as simple as: if I study more, it happens faster.
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
Not necessarily. It varies in how much study needs to happen (e.g. how much exposure to various aspects of the concept). It's not as simple as: if I study more, it happens faster.

So now that confuses that hell out of me.
 
S

Society

Guest
so.. who/where are those non-INTJs who are able to understand 22.6% of an abstract concept before understanding 27% of it? what is 22.6% of the concept of liberty? [(insert joke about your apposing party of choice) + "but no, seriously..."] what does 22.6% of a concept? what does it look like? can you pick a concept and describe just 22.6% of it to me?

i don't think Ne is that different tbh - your brain casts a web (or in the case of Ne doms "is a web" is more like it), catches a concept, know that the concept is in that general area and start pulling out what doesn't belong - because, you know, dolphin tuna regulations... the gradual process isn't in grasping what the concept is, but in using Ji to look at it more intimately from different angles and differentiating what the concept isn't. you still never really hold a fraction of a concept, it's just an illusion stemming from holding vaguer versions of the concept.

if anything, i think that would be a pretty unique ability. can you imagine the ability to hold 22.6% of a concept? is that like downloading a pre built concept from a server? was there a moment when Neo knew 22.6% of kung fu which didn't make the finale cut? or is it like a concept with a scalable business plan for establishing itself in your brain.. how would the whole thing work?
 

The Great One

New member
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
3,439
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
6w7
How so? Some concepts are just easier to grasp than others, whatever one's methods.

Well it almost sounds like more studying doesn't help. It almost sounds like you have to reflect to understand, not to study. It almost sounds like studying doesn't really even do that much.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
so.. who/where are those non-INTJs who are able to understand 22.6% of an abstract concept before understanding 27% of it? what is 22.6% of the concept of liberty? [(insert joke about your apposing party of choice) + "but no, seriously..."] what does 22.6% of a concept? what does it look like? can you pick a concept and describe just 22.6% of it to me?

i don't think Ne is that different tbh - your brain casts a web (or in the case of Ne doms "is a web" is more like it), catches a concept, know that the concept is in that general area and start pulling out what doesn't belong - because, you know, dolphin tuna regulations... the gradual process isn't in grasping what the concept is, but in using Ji to look at it more intimately from different angles and differentiating what the concept isn't. you still never really hold a fraction of a concept, it's just an illusion stemming from holding vaguer versions of the concept.

if anything, i think that would be a pretty unique ability. can you imagine the ability to hold 22.6% of a concept? is that like downloading a pre built concept from a server? was there a moment when Neo knew 22.6% of kung fu which didn't make the finale cut? or is it like a concept with a scalable business plan for establishing itself in your brain.. how would the whole thing work?

It's more like a binary thing.
 
W

WhoCares

Guest
One aspect that hasn't yet been discussed but which I find to be crucial for effective learning for me. My learning windows spans exactly 30mins at a time. I cannot sit down for hours and study a subject. My mind does not work that way. I'm a scanner by nature and my mind constantly scans for lots of subjects for consideration. After 30mins my focus on any one subject wanes and time spent after that is really unproductive. I worked out that if I did study in short sharp bursts then I could cut my total time learning a subject down exponentially. What used to take 30hrs of study now takes less than 10 as long as I don't go past the 30min focus time in any one day.

So of course lectures, schooling and traditional learning sessions work against me since they require longer periods of focus and a slower assimilation process. When I'm assimilating something I am not judging the material, just absorbing it whole. The rumination and judgement happens in the background when I am not studying the topic. It's akin to taking a photo, then shoving that image in a computer to be broken down pixel by pixel in the background and then put together again at some later point.

On top of that the greater the amount of overall stimulation in a day the greater the level of retention by me. So if I flip between 5 different subjects in a day I find I have greater retention of all of those subjects simply because my mind had not been bored by one one of them.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
so.. who/where are those non-INTJs who are able to understand 22.6% of an abstract concept before understanding 27% of it? what is 22.6% of the concept of liberty? [(insert joke about your apposing party of choice) + "but no, seriously..."] what does 22.6% of a concept? what does it look like? can you pick a concept and describe just 22.6% of it to me?
You don't understand a fraction of a concept, though smaller concepts can together form larger ones. You amass facts, perhaps processes, and get a sense of the data that build or support the concept. This knowledge increases with the usual reading and study, and really can get unwieldy, like a loose armful of kindling wood. At some point, all of a sudden the concept comes together and becomes clear. To follow the analogy, the wood is now tightly bound, and easy to heft. It is the difference between seeing alot of individual trees, and then finally comprehending the entire forest.

Well it almost sounds like more studying doesn't help. It almost sounds like you have to reflect to understand, not to study. It almost sounds like studying doesn't really even do that much.
Yes reflection is needed, and almost un/subconscious reflection. Studying helps in making the material more familiar and thus readily accessible to the brain, in whatever way it is going to play with it.
 
Top