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  1. #61
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Um, were you under the impression that people don't have the right to be racist? Because they totally do. At least as far as the legal definition -- you will NOT go to jail for being racist, or saying racist things (i.e. my race is better than your race).

    There's a legal gray area when you start advocating things like killing "undesirables" on sight, because that is an incitement to violence and does not fall under legally protected speech.

    Still, racism is rather frowned upon in most circles, so you can look forward to backlash from people when you show yourself to be racist -- anything from people telling you off and/or distancing themselves from you up to and including losing your job (especially if you are in a position to affect the public "face" of the company, because you better believe that a company's public relations are far more important than ANY single employee).

    There's a difference between a legal right to do something and what most people consider to be acceptable behavior, and people are frequently confused about that. The litmus test is to ask yourself whether you can go to jail or be fined for doing something, and whether that's applicable only to a narrow set of circumstances or across the board. If you won't get into legal trouble for it, you have the right to do it. It just may be inadvisable to do so.
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  2. #62
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Um, were you under the impression that people don't have the right to be racist? Because they totally do. At least as far as the legal definition -- you will NOT go to jail for being racist, or saying racist things (i.e. my race is better than your race).

    There's a legal gray area when you start advocating things like killing "undesirables" on sight, because that is an incitement to violence and does not fall under legally protected speech.

    Still, racism is rather frowned upon in most circles, so you can look forward to backlash from people when you show yourself to be racist -- anything from people telling you off and/or distancing themselves from you up to and including losing your job (especially if you are in a position to affect the public "face" of the company, because you better believe that a company's public relations are far more important than ANY single employee).

    There's a difference between a legal right to do something and what most people consider to be acceptable behavior, and people are frequently confused about that. The litmus test is to ask yourself whether you can go to jail or be fined for doing something, and whether that's applicable only to a narrow set of circumstances or across the board. If you won't get into legal trouble for it, you have the right to do it. It just may be inadvisable to do so.
    which circles? PC liberals.

    Acceptable behaviour doesn't exist, the world is a free for all.

  3. #63
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    which circles? PC liberals.
    Not exactly true, the only circle that doesn't shrink away from overt/blatant racism is white supremacists. Nobody else is cool with someone going around proclaiming that all people of color are inferior to whites, for instance. It's not black and white, either: some people are more ok with more expressions of racism. Ultimately, we are all prejudiced to some degree (and if you'd like to claim otherwise, go take an implicit association test). Different circles have different standards on how overt and explicit your racism is.

    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    Acceptable behaviour doesn't exist, the world is a free for all.
    That's patently untrue. There are A LOT of rules, imposed by different groups, for what they consider to be appropriate behavior. Now, whether what people consider acceptable is "right" or "just" by some other, more objective standard, is very questionable. But that doesn't mean anybody gets to do anything with no consequences. If you actually believe that, and act accordingly, you will find the consequences of your behavior to be very unpleasant.
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    Um, were you under the impression that people don't have the right to be racist? Because they totally do. At least as far as the legal definition -- you will NOT go to jail for being racist, or saying racist things (i.e. my race is better than your race).
    Yes, but on another level: who exactly is saying that one has the right to be racist?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #65
    Senior Member two cents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Yes, but on another level: who exactly is saying that one has the right to be racist?
    This is another area where definitions are important.

    The most easily agreed upon and tested definition of "right" is legal right. You have the legal right to be racist. This is a factually true statement, and can be tested.

    There are other concepts of "rights", for instance, "natural right", or "moral right". The definitions of those are much more fuzzy and contested. There's no single recognized objective authority that can settle the question of whether, for instance, you have the moral right to be racist, and no way to test this assumption in practice. At this level, all you can rely on is prevailing public opinion, which is hardly infallible. In fact, the prevailing public opinion was not just pro-racist, but actually overtly racist, not too long ago, before it gradually changed to frown upon (at least overt) racism.
    And that's my two cents on the subject.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by two cents View Post
    This is another area where definitions are important.

    The most easily agreed upon and tested definition of "right" is legal right. You have the legal right to be racist. This is a factually true statement, and can be tested.

    There are other concepts of "rights", for instance, "natural right", or "moral right". The definitions of those are much more fuzzy and contested. There's no single recognized objective authority that can settle the question of whether, for instance, you have the moral right to be racist, and no way to test this assumption in practice. At this level, all you can rely on is prevailing public opinion, which is hardly infallible. In fact, the prevailing public opinion was not just pro-racist, but actually overtly racist, not too long ago, before it gradually changed to frown upon (at least overt) racism.
    Public opinion depends on where you live.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #67
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Most societies make a distinction among thoughts, words, and actions in limiting behavior. Generally, people can think what they want. Speech is limited as when it slanders another, or incites illegal actions like violence. Actions are the most heavily sanctioned, through laws prohibiting everything from murder and arson to fair hiring laws and public access requirements.

    When it comes to matters of racial prejudice, people can think what they want, and can generally speak their minds as long as it doesn't incite violence. What they may not do in most Western societies is translate these beliefs into actions that negatively impact the target group.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #68
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    "Politically correct" is most often used as a term that people can point to and say that they're not that. Because that's just badass.

    Some people can and will be offended by some things. It matters when you absolutely need to convey a message to someone, to have them hear exactly what you're thinking and nothing more. It doesn't matter in almost every other circumstance.
    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Black people are black--they aren't all African Americans.
    I do love when people try to scramble for a term to describe, say, Nigerian and Ghanan immigrants. "African-Amer-- er, blac-- uhm hold on.."

  9. #69
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bologna View Post
    I do love when people try to scramble for a term to describe, say, Nigerian and Ghanan immigrants. "African-Amer-- er, blac-- uhm hold on.."
    So would a white from South Africa or Zimbabwe, for instance (and I know some of these, whose families have lived there many generations) also be "African-American"??
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #70
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