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  1. #121
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post

    Much of what I have observed involves suppressing inconvenient truths, not so much to avoid hurting feelings, but to avoid openly contradicting people in authority, like bosses, teachers, committee/team leaders, etc. Challenging the worldview of these authorities has obvious risks, which not everyone is in a position to accept.

    Many of my examples occur at work, where the work environment is filled with rules and regulations that cost time and money while contributing nothing to getting the job done. It is politically incorrect to point this out, however, especially when higher-ups are visiting, or we are getting site inspections. These folks don't want to know what it costs, or what isn't getting done because of it. They just want to see everyone following the rules.

    It is politically incorrect to point out how another employee is not doing their job, especially without offering up some sort of "mitigating circumstances" that may not even exist. It is even worse if you want to identify a low-performing group, such as "graduates of University X" or "the purchasing department".

    It is politically incorrect to suggest that our annual fundraisers for various charities are not at all efficient in raising money; or that we could easily cut the cost of the holiday party in half without sacrifice of content; or that no one is interested in the prizes offered as quarterly awards. Each of these claims suggests that Someone Isn't Doing A Good Job, and we're not allowed to say that.

    My current workplace is particularly bad about all this, but I have yet to work anywhere that does not have some of it. I see also in churches, volunteer groups, and especially in schools. Every so often, someone is brave enough to speak the truth. Sometimes it is received better than they expected. More often it is openly criticised, quietly suppressed, or persistently ignored. I pick my battles carefully here because I have only so much political capital, not to mention time and effort, to expend. I go after the things that make the biggest impact on my work, and succeed often enough to be willing to remain in my current position, for now.

    Interestingly, the one place I saw very little political correctness was when I worked in a political campaign office! Perhaps that organization was just too goal-oriented to worry about it.
    You appear to be conflating political correctness with political expediency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #122
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    You don't strike me as being butthurt (that comment was for someone else), then again I assume you're a Fi/Te type, with tert Te? Is that a correct assumption? One of the reasons I like ENFPs so much more than INTJs isn't in the inverted perceiving functions, it's the fact that when you press an ENFP they default to Te, and can actually work things out logically under stress-- whereas tert Fi users just get downright childish when pressed.
    Oops. Suck up fail. She types herself as NTJ, last I heard.

    I'm not sure you even know your own mind in this matter - you keep contradicting yourself. When you figure it out, be sure to let us know. Because I'm sure it will be utterly fascinating.

    I accused her of being a Fi user for the explosion of indignation and butthurt over an opinion stated in the form of a fact (a common Te/Fi irritation), not because she supports political correctness.
    So you were just trolling. Yes, we knew that but thanks for the confirmation. What you couldn't possibly know is that, because I'm a grown up and not a walking INTP stereotype of adolescent neuroses, being called a Fi user isn't any kind of insult to me. I admire Fi users, in fact. Sorry. You fail.

    Ti and Fi are very similar, though Ti tends to garnish less emotional reactions from objective statements because of the inferior Fe.
    I think you mean "garner", though you'd still be wrong. On every level. Maybe come back in a year or two, when you're less confused.
    I wasn't actually presuming to type her, I just wanted to point that tiny facet out in an indirect fashion.
    No, we know, you already told us you were just failing at trolling. Prompted, (amusingly enough) by your own "butthurt and indignation" at being called "wrong" - something many NTs don't handle well, because of their poorly developed feeling. Rather than own that response though, they prefer to project it onto others, to maintain the fragile illusion of their "objectivity".

    Feel better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #123
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Oops. fail. I'm sure it will be utterly fascinating. trolling. Yes, but thanks. you couldn't possibly know. Sorry. You fail. come back in a year or two, when you're less confused. you were just failing at trolling (amusingly enough) Feel better.
    Shhh.

    The grownups are talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I'm a grown up

  4. #124
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    You appear to be conflating political correctness with political expediency.
    Not at all. Rather, it is politically expedient to be politically correct.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #125
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    lulz.. I like how people are discussing the validity of offence as an emotion. looking forward to the post "anger, who needs it?" and "love and joy, meh, do we need these emotions?"

    I reckon if people wish the say the n-word publically, or anti-gay, anti-Semetici, fattist, lookist, sexist, comments in public settings, so be it. there is no true need for "norms" in life.

  6. #126
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    lulz.. I like how people are discussing the validity of offence as an emotion. looking forward to the post "anger, who needs it?" and "love and joy, meh, do we need these emotions?"

    I reckon if people wish the say the n-word publically, or anti-gay, anti-Semetici, fattist, lookist, sexist, comments in public settings, so be it. there is no true need for "norms" in life.
    The validity of emotions is distinct from their utility. Not all emotions, or emotion-fueled responses, are useful or constructive. Many are counterproductive or downright harmful. Norms likewise can often do more harm than good.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #127
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    You don't strike me as being butthurt (that comment was for someone else), then again I assume you're a Fi/Te type, with tert Te? Is that a correct assumption? One of the reasons I like ENFPs so much more than INTJs isn't in the inverted perceiving functions, it's the fact that when you press an ENFP they default to Te, and can actually work things out logically under stress-- whereas tert Fi users just get downright childish when pressed. Sometimes I think that the tert function is the most important function in the stack-- not only is it our fixation function, but it's also the one we reach for when we shoot from the hip.
    Are you saying S is showing Fi characteristics?



    The Ji's look the same sometimes...I ... guess....? >_>

    I wasn't following the Fi projection convo cause I was in a rush, and again, on a crappy phone. :/ woops

    So about my type... I'm a ENXJ. I have Te, I don't have Fe at all. That only leaves me with ENTJ. Luckily I relate to that type. (sarcasm. cause I've typed myself that from day one) I also know what it's like to have inferior Fi, compared to dominant Fi (ex bf.) That's how I know that PC is an - Fi Dom getting their feelings hurt, therefore bringing out inf. Te as a "system" -(which is no system at all to a Te dom, cause it's purely subjective.)

    Also I am undecided about the tertiary function. But it's good to ponder about.

    So now that that's out of the way...I'm just gonna point out, that I find irony in the prevalence of the word "butthurt" in this thread.

    You know....irony...cause it's being politically incorrect an all. LMAO

    I would not get away with saying that with any of my friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    As if we all know politically incorrect speech is actually true, but we don't use it to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Fail. Racism isn't wrong because it offends people, it's simply invalid. Racists are not merely inconsiderate, they are stupid.
    Yea, this gets to the heart of the problem I think.

    However I would use the term ignorant.

    Stupid people repeat mistakes when they know they're wrong. A racist person feels no wrong in their beliefs. Therefore they need to be taught, because they're ignorant. They don't know differently.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  8. #128
    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The validity of emotions is distinct from their utility. Not all emotions, or emotion-fueled responses, are useful or constructive. Many are counterproductive or downright harmful. Norms likewise can often do more harm than good.
    Says who? ALL emotions are valid.

  9. #129

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    Maybe we should clear up the fact that there is only one race of humans. The human race. Therefore, being racist would mean that someone hates all the people of a certain race. Common misconception... Additionally, why don't racist people get to believe what they want to believe without being condemned. I find it very unAmerican to single out a group of people and call them stupid. Wouldn't that be a generalization? You shouldn't fight fire with fire. It only creates an inferno that destroys the entire world. Peace and Love shall reign supreme.

  10. #130
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danseen View Post
    Says who? ALL emotions are valid.
    That's easy to say, but that belief does not come naturally to some people unfortunately. Hence the reason why it took me so long to get on the PC bandwagon.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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