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  1. #111
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Rather than attempt to guess at your intent, I will wait for you to phrase your question more clearly before responding.
    I asked you to expand. Expound. It means I'd like you to provide more information on what you meant when you said :
    In my experience, political correctness often entails suppressing these inconvient truths, as in refusing to acknowledge the emperor's true nakedness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #112
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Us men don't get confused. It's one of our (many) privileges.
    Come back when you're not high and someone will explain your (several) errors to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #113
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    However i feel that people who divide others based on external conceptualizations and constructs are sorely ignorant about science and biology. There is no descisive proof that one group is superior to the other. But there is evidence that groups are seperate and different, and descend from different ancestors who were genetically seperate from each other.
    I wonder at the purpose behind such attempts to divide humanity into these groupings. There are some medical reasons as I already mentioned; scholarly interest in understanding the development and diversification of the human species; and of course, there will always be voluntary associations of similar people. The groupings seem more often, however, to be used for ill, as in the divide-and-conquer racial policies of South African Apartheid.



    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I asked you to expand. Expound. It means I'd like you to provide more information on what you meant when you said :
    Books have been written on this topic and my time is limited. If you cannot see the political benefit of at least appearing to agree with the misguided assertions of those in power, I'm not sure how much better an explanation I can provide. You might review the example I mentioned, and consider the responses, position, and goals of the various people who see that Emperor in his "new clothes".
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #114
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Books have been written on this topic and my time is limited.
    Oh, is it? You'd never know...
    You did say "in my experience". If you are reticent about sharing your experience that's perfectly understandable. As you say,
    Quote Originally Posted by You
    No one is compelled to support their assertions here, but if they don't they cannot expect to be taken seriously.


    You're amongst friends, Coriolis. No need to suppress those damned inconvenient truths that are bothering you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #115
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I wonder at the purpose behind such attempts to divide humanity into these groupings. There are some medical reasons as I already mentioned; scholarly interest in understanding the development and diversification of the human species; and of course, there will always be voluntary associations of similar people. The groupings seem more often, however, to be used for ill, as in the divide-and-conquer racial policies of South African Apartheid.


    Yeah.... I agree... genealogy has no place in politics and external construction, certainly not in political policy. Most historical systems as such, which have justified themselves with science, are obscenely wrong in the light of modern science. And any attempts to introduce such policies and beliefs today would be ludicrous, considering how human groups are interrelated, especially since prehistory. There are no purely seperate groups, unlike what traditional racists and racist ideologies have believed over the years.

    Most racialization has to do with very small bits of genealogy, namely physical morphology. Which is a small part of the overall differences between people. Sometimes it has nothing to do with morphology at all, but religion, culture, ideology. It usually has nothing to do with any deeper knowledge of ancestry. Most such racist notions are devestated with science.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  6. #116
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post

    Ok, we seem to be having trouble coming to terms with our terms. I assume we're aware that systems are not limited to the physical. All they require are connected elements, often through rules. For example, everyone has a 'system' of studying. Subjective to the individual-- could include coffee, tea, time regiments, etc. A "top-down" system, as most Te systems are, are created prior to implementation and use, often vicarious if not personally invented. Per the example above, a top-down study system would be reading 'how best to study,' and they implementing that procedure for yourself. A "bottom-up" system is a system that falls together on its own, and then is noticed (like the solar system, unless you believe in God). Per the study example, it would be like taking random study breaks in periodic intervals between other tasks, whenever one felt like it, and realizing after the big test that it worked very well. Organic; not forced. In the same way, political correctness is very 'top down;' forced, and unnatural.

    Jury is still out on the dom/tert Te/Fi thing. The weaker judging functions only seem to come out when there is no immediate solution to what's encountered for the dominant judging functions. If someone says a word that offends an individual-- a word that isn't inherently offensive (like waitress)-- without political correctness to cite through dom Te, it seems like a tert/inferior Fi would kick in and feel indignant about it, which could have been what was responsible for creating it in the first place.
    Fi brings out sloppy ass Te when it feels overwhelmed with all that it can't control. Such as how ppl treat them, or what others say to them.

    Te gets overwhelmed becuase it introverts it's feelings improperly over long periods of time. Then has an emotional outburst.

    So it's Fi that takes offense. Fi doms to be exact. It's just how it is. They listen with their emotions...and store history connected to emotion as their primary job. They need ppl to be PC.

    Te takes offense (MAYBE IF EVER) if they have been exposed to shit for too long. Or know that there's malintent from the other person. Te will most likely ignore that anyways, cause it ignores it's feelings.

    And subjective things are not systems. I would agree that Te and top down is forceful though....but the root is inferior Te.


    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Yeah, that looks bad...I didn't mean to tie that in with the overall point I was making. I accused her of being a Fi user for the explosion of indignation and butthurt over an opinion stated in the form of a fact (a common Te/Fi irritation), not because she supports political correctness.

    Ti and Fi are very similar, though Ti tends to garnish less emotional reactions from objective statements because of the inferior Fe. I wasn't actually presuming to type her, I just wanted to point that tiny facet out in an indirect fashion.
    This is a perfect example btw, of why I had said when I discuss things with INTP's we get caught up on language. Lmao.

    Are you thinking I'm butthurt because I said "If you're gonna hate..." I hardly consider that an explosion. I would consider that slang lol

    So because you didn't look at intent, which was: Hey if you're going to critique something, at least make sure you have your facts straight. You think I exploded. I find it interesting cause I love a good round of criticism. I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I don't want you to criticize Te....I just want you to be right when you're doing it. lol

    I thought everyone kinda knew that Te loves a good challange. And that's exactly what I was doing. Also That's exactly why we don't care about PC. lol Cause if it's true...then you can't deny it.

    Sorry about the typos. I'm on a shitty phone
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

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  7. #117
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Fi brings out sloppy ass Te when it feels overwhelmed with all that it can't control. Such as how ppl treat them, or what others say to them.

    Are you thinking I'm butthurt because I said "If you're gonna hate..." I hardly consider that an explosion. I would consider that slang lol
    You don't strike me as being butthurt (that comment was for someone else), then again I assume you're a Fi/Te type, with tert Te? Is that a correct assumption? One of the reasons I like ENFPs so much more than INTJs isn't in the inverted perceiving functions, it's the fact that when you press an ENFP they default to Te, and can actually work things out logically under stress-- whereas tert Fi users just get downright childish when pressed. Sometimes I think that the tert function is the most important function in the stack-- not only is it our fixation function, but it's also the one we reach for when we shoot from the hip.

  8. #118
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    I don't view myself as being more concerned with being politically correct than average, but I might be. It's important to me to use language which does not convey incorrect, ignorant, or insulting assumptions toward particular groups of people. I sometimes get offended when people don't share this value, but I realize not everyone cares about the same things and that's not a bad thing. I can just do what I can to help raise consciousness.

  9. #119
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Oh, is it? You'd never know...
    You did say "in my experience". If you are reticent about sharing your experience that's perfectly understandable. As you say,

    You're amongst friends, Coriolis. No need to suppress those damned inconvenient truths that are bothering you.
    Perhaps, but sharing them here is little more than unproductive venting. I will humor you a bit longer, though I doubt your agenda truly entails understanding my personal observations of political correctness. Let's start with your statement below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    As if we all know politically incorrect speech is actually true, but we don't use it to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Fail. Racism isn't wrong because it offends people, it's simply invalid. Racists are not merely inconsiderate, they are stupid. Why invoke political arguments, when purely technical ones will serve? Suppressing inconvenient / offensive truths is as much a mistake as allowing pernicious lies to go uncorrected.
    Much of what I have observed involves suppressing inconvenient truths, not so much to avoid hurting feelings, but to avoid openly contradicting people in authority, like bosses, teachers, committee/team leaders, etc. Challenging the worldview of these authorities has obvious risks, which not everyone is in a position to accept.

    Many of my examples occur at work, where the work environment is filled with rules and regulations that cost time and money while contributing nothing to getting the job done. It is politically incorrect to point this out, however, especially when higher-ups are visiting, or we are getting site inspections. These folks don't want to know what it costs, or what isn't getting done because of it. They just want to see everyone following the rules.

    It is politically incorrect to point out how another employee is not doing their job, especially without offering up some sort of "mitigating circumstances" that may not even exist. It is even worse if you want to identify a low-performing group, such as "graduates of University X" or "the purchasing department".

    It is politically incorrect to suggest that our annual fundraisers for various charities are not at all efficient in raising money; or that we could easily cut the cost of the holiday party in half without sacrifice of content; or that no one is interested in the prizes offered as quarterly awards. Each of these claims suggests that Someone Isn't Doing A Good Job, and we're not allowed to say that.

    My current workplace is particularly bad about all this, but I have yet to work anywhere that does not have some of it. I see also in churches, volunteer groups, and especially in schools. Every so often, someone is brave enough to speak the truth. Sometimes it is received better than they expected. More often it is openly criticised, quietly suppressed, or persistently ignored. I pick my battles carefully here because I have only so much political capital, not to mention time and effort, to expend. I go after the things that make the biggest impact on my work, and succeed often enough to be willing to remain in my current position, for now.

    Interestingly, the one place I saw very little political correctness was when I worked in a political campaign office! Perhaps that organization was just too goal-oriented to worry about it.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #120
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    I think that being politically correct improves your chances of being understood correctly, lest some oversensitive jerk with a point to make begin harping you over something that had nothing to do with what you were trying to say.
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