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  1. #51
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Double-post victory!

    Though there are also countries in the world that devalue T and favour Fe:

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  2. #52
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I understand, as an INTJ, I'm allowed to speak in this thread, so hear goes.

    This world is not 100% xxTx type. I cannot expect that all of my interactions will be between xxTxs and myself. Therefore, it's only logical to adapt to my environment, which contains xxFxs.

    Not only that, but being a better communicator with xxFxs (meeting people on a playing field we're both comfortable with) improves my skills and qualities as a human because it allows for better relationships to be built and maintained.

    It's highly illogical to not develop F skills and to become competent in those areas. You're only holding yourself back, which also holds back how much you can positively impact others.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  3. #53
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Hi Usehername

    I hope you will not be offended if I point out that your sentiments in this thread are very expressive of Te whereas Bluewing's and mine are very expressive of Ti.

    Te wants to juggle concrete facts to build something worthwhile in the real world.

    Ti wants to juggle abstract ideas, take them apart, and analyse the truth to them. As such, Ti is not always observant of the real world.

    In that light:

    This world is not 100% xxTx type. I cannot expect that all of my interactions will be between xxTxs and myself. Therefore, it's only logical to adapt to my environment, which contains xxFxs.
    Is very true to Te, yet it does not relate to the truth of the observations expressed in the OP, but rather to their usefulness in the real world.

    ---

    By the way, I can't speak for Bluewing, but I actively seek to develop my F skills day by day. But as of yet, Ti truth-seeking always takes precedence.
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  4. #54
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Orangey I don't think your line of reasoning is wholly compatible with what I said. It appears that we are talking about different things there.

    Though I agree that the things Feeling excels at are generally devalued in Western society. I even put that on my webpage
    Yeah, what I said was pretty unrelated to what you were saying. Quoting you probably gave the impression that I was responding specifically to that part of your argument, but I was actually just taking the whole "thinkers are valued higher than feelers" idea and running .

    I understand what you were saying though...that by making it offensive to suggest that feelers think more, while it's perfectly fine to suggest that thinkers feel more, it makes it seem as though feelers aren't capable of doing both (or that it's easier for a thinker to feel than for a feeler to think, suggesting that feeling is a lower function). My only point of disagreement would be that I don't think many feeling types say or believe that they shouldn't develop their "thinking" more at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    But then again, I think most of the people who win the laurelates for litterature are NFs.
    True!
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    1
    There is indeed a possibility that Bluewing's sentiments are fed off inferior Feeling. Should we then, turn this entire matter into a question of wheter Bluewing is deluded, rather than wheter Bluewing is correct? - I think that we are doing ourselves a disfavour if we opt to do the former.
    Your correct. My apologies, Bluewing.

  6. #56
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    Hi Usehername

    I hope you will not be offended if I point out that your sentiments in this thread are very expressive of Te whereas Bluewing's and mine are very expressive of Ti.
    Not at all offended. I sometimes forget about Ti because I don't quite operate with that function often.

    A friend of mine recently "typed" me as INTP because of my apparent lack of Jness (my bedroom and belongings don't look very organized, which, yes, is a bad way to type someone as J or P) but yes, I am very much a xxTJ.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #57
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Actually, I would very much like to point out my values and how they work in a concrete and structured manner. The problem is, the details are more clouds around primary anchor points much like the electron clouds around the nucleus of an atom. If I take a quick snap shot of where one of them is at a specific point in time I can snatch it, but only that one while the others continue to buzz around. I would have to consider chaos theory as almost the best way to put it where the only way to know where everything is all the time one would need to have access to the initial conditions an all the conditions after that up to the present point. Switching to Te, this becomes impractical with the number of these details zipping around at varying speeds.

    Honestly, I'd rather talk about organic molecules and blue shifted realty when expected to use a Thinking function.

    Fi - sorry we're pissing you off
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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  8. #58
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackwater View Post
    5a
    One thing I objectively believe to be true is that it is relatively easy to point out the logical fallacy in malfunctioning T, which in theory should help the T to redeem himself.
    (In theory, at least - though we might actually argue that what is getting in the way of the T redeeming himself after being proven logically wrong in practice is actually their inferior F)
    Whereas, malfunctioning F is often pretty hard to rectify because little or no logic is really necessary. - Just like the OP describes.
    I'll go ahead and respond specifically to this part of your post though, since it's related to the OP . First off, I think that what you said in the quoted part above is a truism. We all already know that feeling does not logically justify its decisions- that's why it's feeling and not thinking.

    Second, (and this is aimed more at the OP) since we know that feeling makes different types of decisions than thinking, we should also know that some types of decisions will fall outside of its capability (same for thinking, as I demonstrated with the art example). What the OP is complaining about is that unbalanced feelers will use the feeling function to make decisions in situations that are not suited for that type of decision-making. I think any reasonable person will agree that this is sometimes the case. Of course, I have given a fairly moderate interpretation of the OP, since a lot of what he says could be interpreted as meaning that the feeling function has absolutely no purpose at all except to undermine sound judgment and correct perception, under any circumstances. I will assume, for the moment, that Bluewing already recognizes that most feelers are not really unbalanced, and that the feeling function is acceptable when used to make decisions in certain situations.

    The problem now is that there is really nothing else to discuss. I could either commiserate with Bluewing and share a personal experience I've had dealing with an unbalanced feeler, or I could try and argue the definition of terms. I have tried the latter, but Bluewing won't budge on the definition of "feeling", the revised definition of which is necessary to argue any point made in the post.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  9. #59
    Senior Member sriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    It can be done, but at this point simply irrelevant.
    I would enjoy reading your opinion on that.
    Reyson: ...If you were to change your ways, I'm sure we could rebuild the relationship the two of us once shared.

    Naesala: Oh no, that I could never do. You see, humans are essential to the fulfillment of my ambitions.

    Reyson: You've changed, Naesala. If this is the path you've chosen, I've nothing left to say.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Blackwater's Avatar
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    Second, (and this is aimed more at the OP) since we know that feeling makes different types of decisions than thinking, we should also know that some types of decisions will fall outside of its capability (same for thinking, as I demonstrated with the art example).
    Yes I concur. This is actually my main critique of Feeling. Although way too often people end up hearing "feelers suck". (which I, to the best of my knowledge, have never said).

    Though this supports my earlier point that people unconciously treat Thinking as superior to Feeling. No one will take the statement: "Thinkers are so cold" to mean: "Thinkers suck".
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