User Tag List

First 1234513 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 234

  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minako-bot View Post
    Do you think that is true of every single one of them? I'm just curious.
    No.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #22
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    This is why I dont want Fs posting here. They, like Jennifer arent interested in ideas and arguments that back them up, only in personal motivations of people who propound them.
    I'm interested in both ideas/arguments that back them up AND personal motivations. Motivation is totally relevant. If an author has a particular goal, he will use particular words and examples to achieve that goal. It's not that hard to detach oneself emotionally from a specimen of "argument" and see what the human behind the argument is trying to do. The ability to do this is not a weakness or a drawback in any way. The ability to see what it is that you're trying to accomplish with the examples that you use and the tone that you take is a strength. If you discount the importance of understanding motivation in argument, you make yourself vulnerable to manipulation.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #23
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    [QUOTE: bluewing]Thus when they say the wall is red, they are not talking about the actual wall, but about their feelings about the wall. And of course whether or not they be saying it is red depends on their mood and the moods of those around them. It all depends on whether or not they like red or those they converse with do, and of course a myriad of subjective emotional implications that go along with this.
    Why would the feeling function affect a person's ability to correctly perceive reality? Do we decide what to accept as real? For instance, when I look at a Coke can, do I have to consciously decide that it is red? I don't think that perception has anything to do with judgment because it's only after we perceive that we can make a judgment on anything at all. When looking at a red wall, both a thinker and a feeler would take in the same sensory data (granted, of course, that they are not under the influence of hallucinogens) and note that the wall is red. A feeling judgment can then be made with this data, and we can either like or dislike the color of the wall, given our particular tastes. Making a feeling judgment is not necessary in the situation (in which case we may neither like nor dislike the color of the wall), but if we do make one it will only tell us whether we like the red wall or not- not whether the wall is red.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #24
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I'm interested in both ideas/arguments that back them up AND personal motivations. Motivation is totally relevant. If an author has a particular goal, he will use particular words and examples to achieve that goal. It's not that hard to detach oneself emotionally from a specimen of "argument" and see what the human behind the argument is trying to do. The ability to do this is not a weakness or a drawback in any way. The ability to see what it is that you're trying to accomplish with the examples that you use and the tone that you take is a strength. If you discount the importance of understanding motivation in argument, you make yourself vulnerable to manipulation.
    It isn't a drawback, but it also isn't an argument in itself. One can note the possible motivations behind an argument in order to guard oneself against manipulation, but to simply state what you believe to be the motivation is not a counterargument.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  5. #25
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Why would the feeling function affect a person's ability to correctly perceive reality? Do we decide what to accept as real? For instance, when I look at a Coke can, do I have to consciously decide that it is red? I don't think that perception has anything to do with judgment because it's only after we perceive that we can make a judgment on anything at all. When looking at a red wall, both a thinker and a feeler would take in the same sensory data (granted, of course, that they are not under the influence of hallucinogens) and note that the wall is red. A feeling judgment can then be made with this data, and we can either like or dislike the color of the wall, given our particular tastes. Making a feeling judgment is not necessary in the situation (in which case we may neither like nor dislike the color of the wall), but if we do make one it will only tell us whether we like the red wall or not- not whether the wall is red.
    Because Feeling is entangled in our personal preferrences which easily deludes us into thinking that things are the way we wish they were.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #26
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    While we're making demands for consistency: mysteries are solved; claims, assertions or statements are debunked.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6?
    Posts
    2,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    It isn't a drawback, but it also isn't an argument in itself. One can note the possible motivations behind an argument in order to guard oneself against manipulation, but to simply state what you believe to be the motivation is not a counterargument.
    Well, okay. It's not (in itself) an argument to understand the motivation that someone has while making an argument. That information cannot itself discount facts. But I read this "argument" of Bluewing's here and, like you (Orangey), note that the "red" paragraph seems bizarre and illogical and (like Jennifer) note that BW is somehow presenting Bin Laden as the posterchild for NF communication. More interesting to me (an NF?) is what it is that he's trying to accomplish here. I typed out a paragraph similar to yours re: the argument regarding color, but it seemed so illogical that I didn't feel that it was even necessary to tear it down because it's so apparently flawed. What's more interesting to me is WHY Bluewing would make such a strange argument.

    Bluewing doesn't want this type of conversation in his thread at all, as he has explicitly stated. I suppose what he wants is for everybody to contribute to why NFs are a bunch of assholes? I'm not entirely sure.

    Edit: contribute "logically" of course. Make sure all examples make sense. Please model them after the argument regarding the red wall.
    INFJ

    "I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #28
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Feelers tend to make decisions not based on objective reality, but on value judgments. On their feelings about reality.
    ...
    Ha! So, what you're saying is: I'm pissed. Here's a box. Let's put Fs in it.

    Well, against your will, I'll reply at your level: Screw you ! All intps are lame, cold heartless bastards. You're all inferior to my master social manipulations, and are thus worthless. QED.

    Note: That was not representative of my true feelings which can only be described as happy or sad and thus good or bad because I only make decisions based on emotions, as that's all I'm capable of. Where's my box?! Oh, here it is *hops in*

  9. #29
    seor member colmena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INXP
    Posts
    1,550

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    All intps are lame, cold heartless bastards. You're all inferior to my master social manipulations, and are thus worthless.
    This is a self-fulfilling prophecy for me, anyway.
    http://badges.mypersonality.info/badge/0/6/68764.png
    Ti Ne Fi Ni

    -How beautiful, this pale Endymion hour.
    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  10. #30
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix13 View Post
    Ha! So, what you're saying is: I'm pissed. Here's a box. Let's put Fs in it.

    Well, against your will, I'll reply at your level: Screw you ! All intps are lame, cold heartless bastards. You're all inferior to my master social manipulations, and are thus worthless. QED.

    Note: That was not representative of my true feelings which can only be described as happy or sad and thus good or bad because I only make decisions based on emotions, as that's all I'm capable of. Where's my box?! Oh, here it is *hops in*
    C'mon, cut the guy some slack. It's obvious someone has hurt his feelings.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

Similar Threads

  1. My bro, such a mystery... NT or NF?
    By Cality in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-27-2008, 04:17 AM
  2. Physicists have 'solved' mystery of levitation
    By Sparky in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-04-2007, 03:43 AM
  3. let the mystery be unravelled....
    By mystery in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 08-01-2007, 04:02 PM
  4. Geoff's pictures : Sunset amidst prehistory and mystery
    By Geoff in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-18-2007, 06:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO