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  1. #141
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I understand this. The problem with it is that if one prefers, say, thinking over feeling, he/she will naturally suppress feeling and take thinking closer to its isolated state (or will at least be strongly inclined to do so). This, according to you, can have no positive effects. But if it has no positive effects, then how can a thinking type have any strengths? How can any type for that matter?
    I did not say this has no positive effects. Very often when we over-rely on our dominant function we are still able to interact with our inferior function enough to stay balanced. Only in cases of extreme neurosis over-reliance on the dominant function becomes crippling.
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  2. #142
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    If you're arguing with bluewing, it would be more effective to point out logical fallacies, bad assumptions, etc. he makes, rather than just stating the "one function is no better than another" line. Many of the return arguments based on this line are quite poor in themselves and also poorly written.

    Also, you'll be getting yourself argued in circles. If you are, either stop arguing, or find the logical inconsistencies and fallacies in the circular arguments.

  3. #143
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    If you're arguing with bluewing, it would be more effective to point out logical fallacies, bad assumptions, etc. he makes, rather than just stating the "one function is no better than another" line. Many of the return arguments based on this line are quite poor in themselves and also poorly written.

    Also, you'll be getting yourself argued in circles. If you are, either stop arguing, or find the logical inconsistencies and fallacies in the circular arguments.
    I want you to point out one logical fallacy.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  4. #144
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    I did not say this has no positive effects. Very often when we over-rely on our dominant function we are still able to interact with our inferior function enough to stay balanced. Only in cases of extreme neurosis over-reliance on the dominant function becomes crippling.
    This makes sense then. So would I be correct in saying that your original post was meant as a criticism of neurotic feeling?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Some claim that Feeling is a rational function, that it sticks to values and the Feeler does what he believes in. That is not true at all, as too often we hear them say 'but I don't feel like it' or 'I am not in the mood' or just simply 'doesn't feel right'. If he were acting out on principles he would say, this is what I believe in, this is a matter of fact, completely objective, and this is what I shall do. Doing this requires a tough-minded attitude with and aptitude for objective reality which manifestly requires a Thinking faculty. Feeling does not have any firm principles as it is this profoundly infused in the flavor of amorphous emotions which are simply moosh.
    Does this mean that we can blame dogmatism on the thinking function?
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  5. #145
    heart on fire
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    Originally Posted by BlueWing
    I am okay with whatever values they have (which often is compassion and the great fruit this yields) as long as they are able to state this clearly and stay consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by WobblyStilettos View Post
    I think, if you believe that feelings/values can actually be consistent, let alone put into words in a satisfactory manner, then you are a long, loooong way off debunking the F mystery.
    Emotions may not be consistent we're all human and cannot control the fleeting moods and fancies that flutter through our minds. However, we can control that which we dwell on or nuture into something larger. We may not be able to control emotion that flows within us, but we certainly can control the words that fly from our lips or our own actions.

    We don't have to be slaves to emotion in order to continue to enjoy deep feeling. I took BW's post to be complaining about a lack of control over how emotion affects people's actions and judgments. When we decide which emotions to focus on, we can make our own Feeling experience richer for doing so and cut the white noise of unfocused emotion that scatters us and leads us into areas where we are not fuctioning at our best and doing the best for the values and beliefs we hold and/or loving and caring for those most important to us.


    It seems that Feeling as far as judgment function should be stable. This what irks me so strongly in people who say "I no longer judge" it is like, what do you do then? Just float from one impulse and wildly flucuating emotion to another? I have been around people who DO live like this too much in my early life and I don't care for it at all.


    Values should not be changing without compelling cause that can be explained clearly. I do agree that a Feeler who cannot explain how they came to a certain value judgement is lacking in backbone. This is what I disagreed so strongly with Kiddo about his scorn for Fi "moral core" that he felt was too rigid to suit the various moral moods of the moment. (Hi Kiddo! )

    Gosh, the very idea that values cannot be consistant just sets my teeth on edge, reminds me of some of the people I know in offline life who live so impulsively. I see them as dangerous people. We should be able to come to know the people around us and be able to trust in their sound judgment from one day to the next without major swings in values with no sound explaination for the change. I cannot tolerate people like this.

  6. #146
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Emotions may not be consistent we're all human and cannot control the fleeting moods and fancies that flutter through our minds. However, we can control that which we dwell on or nuture into something larger. We may not be able to control emotion that flows within us, but we certainly can control the words that fly from our lips or our own actions.

    We don't have to be slaves to emotion in order to continue to enjoy deep feeling. I took BW's post to be complaining about a lack of control over how emotion affects people's actions and judgments. When we decide which emotions to focus on, we can make our own Feeling experience richer for doing so and cut the white noise of unfocused emotion that scatters us and leads us into areas where we are not fuctioning at our best and doing the best for the values and beliefs we hold and/or loving and caring for those most important to us.


    It seems that Feeling as far as judgment function should be stable. This what irks me so strongly in people who say "I no longer judge" it is like, what do you do then? Just float from one impulse and wildly flucuating emotion to another? I have been around people who DO live like this too much in my early life and I don't care for it at all.


    Values should not be changing without compelling cause that can be explained clearly. I do agree that a Feeler who cannot explain how they came to a certain value judgement is lacking in backbone. This is what I disagreed so strongly with Kiddo about his scorn for Fi "moral core" that he felt was too rigid to suit the various moral moods of the moment. (Hi Kiddo! )

    Gosh, the very idea that values cannot be consistant just sets my teeth on edge, reminds me of some of the people I know in offline life who live so impulsively. I see them as dangerous people. We should be able to come to know the people around us and be able to trust in their sound judgment from one day to the next without major swings in values with no sound explaination for the change. I cannot tolerate people like this.
    My ESFJ friend is pretty awesome for her consistency when it comes to sticking with her values. Like she believes that everyone deserves a second chance and she forgave her ex boyfriend who she found out had only dated her so he could get in her pants. She knew that and still forgave him. I was at her house one day and they were IMing back and forth I was like "What are you talking to him for?" And she told me she forgave him and I remember being stunned. Totally stunned. And then I was like "Man, ok maybe I need to learn to be forgiving like that too." Talk about major consistency. Dude only wanted to use her for her body and she STILL forgave him. Oh and just to be clear she forgave him but didn't get back together with him of course.

    Just an anecdote.

    And yeah consistency is pretty awesome.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  7. #147
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Is bluewing always mad at the F's or is it just in this thread?

  8. #148
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    Is bluewing always mad at the F's or is it just in this thread?
    He's got threads all over the place like this.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

  9. #149
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    He's got threads all over the place like this.
    He seems to be in particularly poor form as of late, though. Tisk, tisk.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #150
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    He seems to be in particularly poor form as of late, though. Tisk, tisk.
    Yeah. Poor guy.
    "To find beauty in loss, hope in darkness."

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