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  1. #1
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    Default Feeling Good.....Just Destroyed INTJ in Debate

    One of my best friends is an INTJ. We have been best friends for about 14, 15 years.

    I can't stand a lot about him. Education matters, but isn't the end all. I've graduated from a prestigious University, he dropped out from 2 community colleges. He has been jobless for what seems like more than a year, ANY money he gets his hands on goes to weed, he drinks all throughout the day, and the only thing that matters to him is his ISFJ girlfriend who has emotional and self-esteem issues of her own. He's megalomaniacal, thinks he's WAY smarter than he actually is, and REALLY overestimates his own intelligence and ability.

    Tonight, I drank some wine, and over Facebook messaging, I tore him a new one, and it felt GREAT.

    Usually, he'll make a statement that I know is false or stupid, but I'll agree because I don't want to show him up. From talking to people on PerC, they encouraged me to argue against him, he'd appreciate it if he was INTJ.

    The topic was American Horror Story.

    Now, I have to preface this saying he's absolutely NOT homophobic.

    He has told me that the show has its "gays" because it's "a girl's show" based solely on the fact that there are primarily female characters and it was written by the Glee people. We've argued before on how (I was saying -- being a person of color) that people of color cannot be racist. Most people don't understand this, and I was trying to explain to him, he wouldn't have it, so I left it at that.

    Tonight, I went HAM.

    I told him tonight's episode showed that AHS agrees with me regarding racism. He, trying to belittle me, says "that show's not real." I told him "oh yeah, that makes sense, there is no such city in America called New Orleans."

    He then called the actresses robotic. I explained to him that it was an all-star cast filled with Golden Globe winners. I admitted that awards were mostly political, but there weren't any HUGE names that anyone would benefit from them winning their award (a stretch -- but he's not smart enough to really argue the politics of award shows).

    Then I told him "and besides, it's better than most shows you watch" (he actually does SOMETHING when he's stuck in his room all day, getting high. If he was reading or writing, I wouldn't be so pissed at him. But he watches shows).

    This is a direct quote (after he told me the show was lame and I explained to him it's better than 90% of the shows he watches):
    I like corny when its intentional, but when its just because of over and under acting its lame

    I explained to him how dumb that statement was. He said the show "tries too hard" (which, I kind of agree with).

    So I told him that he prefers to watch a show that is INTENTIONALLY more sucky when AHS is CLEARLY better, by his own admission AND that he hates the show because of its predominantly female cast.

    I then explained to him the definition of sexism and how he was being a sexist.

    Then he asked me to "stop calling him out on something he doesn't give a shit about. It's obnoxious." Then he says I am acting like a former friend who uses MBTI to prescribe people with personality faults.

    I explain to him that I'm merely trying to understand, and I'm using direct quotes from HIM. My friend used to take what I said, COMPLETELY twisted it, and sometimes, his "direct quotes" from me was apples and oranges to what I ACTUALLY said.

    Then, he said "it's not sexist for not wanting to watch a show for girls."

    I explained to him that he CLEARLY stated that it was "for girls because there WERE girls."

    He said he doesn't care, but he hates that the show talks about teenage girl issues.

    Now, talking to him, one of his biggest defenses (he hates when I talk about souls and what not) is that "it's not REAL." He hates AHS because it talks about the paranormal and it's not REAL.

    So, I reply, "aren't teenage girl issues REAL? You like real..."

    I told him he was a walking contradiction (not just in this argument, but ALL THE F***ING time. I didn't tell him that though. This was the first time I've called him a contradiction in 15 years. I'm not the only one of his friends pissed about this).

    Then he told me he was always joking (big time backpedaling here). And says I do exactly what my former friend used to do. I explain to him that, unlike my friend, I'm just trying to see his viewpoint and I'm not inferring ANYTHING from what he says, I'm just taking EXACTLY what he says and putting it into context, and that HE'S the one that's being a walking contradiction.

    He then calls me names and starts cussing at me.

    I explain to him that "he who has nothing left to throw but stones has admitted his own defeat"

    Unwilling to admit that I completely derailed him in argument, he says "that's COMPLETELY not what is happening here. You are being obnoxious, you are being annoying, so I'm going to ignore you."

    I just say "haha take care."

    He's an unhealthy INTJ (although, at times, I think an unhealthy INFJ, but still unhealthy nonetheless). I was helping him apply to jobs before, I told him to make a resume, he told me he has "nothing to put on a resume." Yet he talks about becoming an architect and how he KNOWS he's going to make 6 figures one day. Yet he sits in his room with his enabling girlfriend doing nothing all day. How long he has been away from work is reason enough to believe that NO drafting school would take him UNLESS he gets books on his own, reads, and drafts his OWN blueprint. HAHAHAHA the thought is hilarious.

    Perhaps, for his sake, it may be best to lose him as a friend, and just derail him to bring him back down to Earth so he can see that his shit isn't shiny as he thinks. Maybe that'll light a fire under him.

    Well, anyways, this has been a half vent, a half "hurrah" moment. This kid hasn't read a single bit of philosophy, I'm a philosophy major who reads and even writes his own philosophy JUST FOR FUN, yet he has the gall to say I'm wrong, at times, in regards to philosophy with no backing. Just to give you a picture of how he is.

    Still, he knows how to make me laugh, he listens when I am having a problem (though his advice is usually god awful), & he tolerates me. My parents think the only reason why I'm still friends with him is because it's easy, and he's easily accessible (lives less than a block away from me). For years I've been thinking about losing him as a friend. I toss the idea in my head everyday.

    Thoughts?

    NOTE: I was a diversity trainer in college. He knows it pisses me off to hear the words "gay," "f@g," "ret@rd," and words like that. He tells me that "I take it too literally," which lately I've told him "open a book and read." Yes, we are starting to get testy w/ each other. He still uses these words and questions my authority when I tell him "I know you don't HATE women, but yes, that's sexism, dude."

  2. #2
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #3
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Tertiary Ti attacking tertiary Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    Still, he knows how to make me laugh, he listens when I am having a problem (though his advice is usually god awful), & he tolerates me. My parents think the only reason why I'm still friends with him is because it's easy, and he's easily accessible (lives less than a block away from me). For years I've been thinking about losing him as a friend. I toss the idea in my head everyday.

    Thoughts?
    I would focus on the bold.

    Now, this next part is going to sound harsh, but, if you've been thinking about losing him as a friend every single day, maybe you should just do that rather than live out the need to tear him a new one? What purpose does that even serve here? This approach will not "light a fire under him". This is not the optimal way to deal with tert Fi, although it is the way to hurt tert Fi.

    eta: sorry, I see now this is in the Personal NT sub-forum ... if you were only looking for NT input, my apologies.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #4
    amateur cartographer kquirk's Avatar
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    What are some of the bad shows that your friend watches?

    I haven't seen any American Horror Story since the first four or five episodes from season 1. It wasn't my favorite. I wanted it to be scarier and less soap opera-y. I do get the sense that it aims more for female viewership, not that that's a bad thing. Plenty of media is aimed at males. If it's good, it's good. It doesn't matter what it's about.
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  5. #5
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Jesus christ, for how long did you bottle up these feelings? I would suggest you to release your hatred for your friend more frequently.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  6. #6
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Dude. There's no reason to debate him to win; he's kicking his own ass.
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  7. #7
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...
    ikr
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    #1: called the actresses robotic.
    #2: it was an all-star cast filled with Golden Globe winners.

    #2 does not refute #1.

    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24
    I explain to him that "he who has nothing left to throw but stones has admitted his own defeat"
    Your entire post is throwing stones at your "best friend."

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith
    So this is what tertiary Ti looks like...
    Such hostility.

  9. #9
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    I never understood the concept of winning/losing a debate over personal opinions. And, by that, I mean calling it a debate.
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  10. #10
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    I never understood the concept of winning/losing a debate over personal opinions. And, by that, I mean calling it a debate.
    Yeah, I agree, but some people like raw tomatoes, and we ALL know raw tomatoes are gross. Don't make me "prove" it!

    @ @idkman24 That's a lot of hostility there. Is it worth it?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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