[INTJ] Feeling Good.....Just Destroyed INTJ in Debate

[Oaky]

Your entire post is throwing stones at your "best friend."

I thought of this when reading the OP.

One of my best friends is an INTJ.

Though realising the timeframe between the first post and now I certainly hope as a philosophy major you somehow revisited your post in a wiser perceptive viewpoint. Especially as someone who's gone through college and gotten a degree, to belittle others who haven't and has a less ideal life is a fairly unwitting move. I suppose this could differentiate between having someone as a 'friend' and having someone as a friend. If the latter, this thread would not exist. If you were the wiser, you would not make a thread like this even if it was about someone who was not your friend. I am very much attacking your character. It's the type I'd not spend time with. You've said barely anything good about your INTJ 'friend' so I've no clear thoughts there.

In the area of debate, to win is a useless concept. Minds challenge others to properly grow in mental clarity and critical thought as well as provide insight to a particular topic. If 'destroying' is your aim, the debate loses value. It is far better for one to feel at a loss through being unable to receive new insight than to be egotistically amused.

 

[violet_crown]

Frenemy bullshit notwithstanding, the OP lost me when he upheld AHS as some kind of gold standard of racial commentary. I mean, you've gotta be kidding me...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't want to start debating this on TypeC, but no, people of color cannot be "racist." It's a power structure thing.

Unless we consider that there may in fact exist different types of racism.

It's also subjective, depending on which definition one prefers.

But I respect your opinion and your desire to avoid a debate.

Also, your own background growing up as a human born of a minority race has most definitely given you experience and insight on this subject which I might lack.

Congratulations on tearing your friend a new one (I think). Sounds more like an issue of subjective opinion and personal preference than a fact based debate, which implies no true winner, unless you measure the best based on who better kept their cool and provided a more moving argument, in which case it seems you have the slight edge. Either way, you can at least relish in the glory of not losing another debate to an INTJ.

 

[idkman24]

HAHA people are still on this? It was so long ago....

 

[grey_beard]

I question whether he's really an INTJ. Wouldn't an INTJ divide his time exclusively between (say) The Big Bang Theory and Mythbusters reruns?
And wazzup with the weed and dropping out of Community College? Most INTJs are *much* more intellectually driven than that -- unless, as you imply, the girlfriend is bad for him?
(What does she see in an unemployed marijuana user anyway?)

 

[Opal]

I question whether he's really an INTJ. Wouldn't an INTJ divide his time exclusively between (say) The Big Bang Theory and Mythbusters reruns?
And wazzup with the weed and dropping out of Community College? Most INTJs are *much* more intellectually driven than that -- unless, as you imply, the girlfriend is bad for him?
(What does she see in an unemployed marijuana user anyway?)

I know more than a few INTJs. One is a math/linguistics double major at Michigan State, while another is a creative writing major at a community college. I've seen the latter in different states of drug abuse. I think a big factor in the academic derailment of INTJs is collapsing relationships (or was with him and, incidentally, me), especially ones they let intertwine with their sense of self-worth. An "other half" I exclusively share my wit and compassion with is very attractive. Also, I can see complacency initiating a downward spiral of sorts, especially in people prone to depression; once you feel you've met your own expectations, you're free to lift your head and, you know, gaze for long into an abyss.

 

[grey_beard]

I know more than a few INTJs. One is a math/linguistics double major at Michigan State, while another is a creative writing major at a community college. I've seen the latter in different states of drug abuse. I think a big factor in the academic derailment of INTJs is collapsing relationships (or was with him and, incidentally, me), especially ones they let intertwine with their sense of self-worth. An "other half" I exclusively share my wit and compassion with is very attractive. Also, I can see complacency initiating a downward spiral of sorts, especially in people prone to depression; once you feel you've met your own expectations, you're free to lift your head and, you know, gaze for long into an abyss.

Fair 'nuff on both counts.

 

[BlackDog]

I thought of this when reading the OP.


Though realising the timeframe between the first post and now I certainly hope as a philosophy major you somehow revisited your post in a wiser perceptive viewpoint. Especially as someone who's gone through college and gotten a degree, to belittle others who haven't and has a less ideal life is a fairly unwitting move. I suppose this could differentiate between having someone as a 'friend' and having someone as a friend. If the latter, this thread would not exist. If you were the wiser, you would not make a thread like this even if it was about someone who was not your friend. I am very much attacking your character. It's the type I'd not spend time with. You've said barely anything good about your INTJ 'friend' so I've no clear thoughts there.

In the area of debate, to win is a useless concept. Minds challenge others to properly grow in mental clarity and critical thought as well as provide insight to a particular topic. If 'destroying' is your aim, the debate loses value. It is far better for one to feel at a loss through being unable to receive new insight than to be egotistically amused.

You are 100% right. I can't stand this guy based on what I have read about him; at first I thought he made the whole story up for fun, but towards the end I changed my mind and decided he is at the least a narcissist reinterpreting reality through his own warped viewpoint, and at worst a liar backstabbing his friend.

Dude, you think you destroyed an INTJ in a debate? Now I'm going to sift through your posts here and take a shot at destroying YOU by pointing out the extreme improbabilities lined up in your story.

 

[BlackDog]

Okay, so you made your opening statement which lots of people have seen, but perhaps some people miss this fine bit of egoism. I will address it in chunks, referencing your opening post as well.

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION], your response makes plenty of sense to me

IDK if we are friendemies or what we are. I think if the geography wasn't a given, we'd be AT MOST friends that see each other only once in a while. Even our interests are drastically different. Have been forever. I had a Taiwanese friend back in middle school, and he and I bonded over our love of basketball. I remember this friend getting jealous because he saw me wanting to hang out with my Taiwanese friend more than I wanted to hang out with him.

He moved away.

Okay, so here when someone questions whether you are really friends, you respond by saying IDK, and then bringing out more dirt on your 'friend'.

You bring up a real friend, and mention his ethnicity over and over for some reason, and then point out that your 'friend' with whom you have no interests in common got jealous. This suggests a hint of racism.

Frankly, my INTJ friend's entire family is messed up. His twin sister is on drugs and she has the emotional and mental maturity of a 14 year old, the mom is a stressed out mess, and the dad is not what I'd call a man. I remember trying to unite my Taiwanese friend and my INTJ friend, so I brought him over to the INTJ friend's house. His mom warned him that "he isn't to be trusted, he'd steal from you if he had the chance." Nothing to do with him being Taiwanese, but I think it had more to do with him being my best friend.

Now, you are no longer satisfied with trashing your 'friend', so you drag in his family, all of whom are apparently horrible. What does 'the dad is not what I'd call a man' mean? You also mention your 'real' friend's ethnicity again, and attribute an exact quote to his mother in which she plays to a traditional racial stereotype of Asians. Apparently to make sure that we don't miss her racism, you specifically deny that she was being racist (although your reason contradicting this makes no sense to me).

Now, fast forward to today. Like I said, I have a degree from a prestigious university, and actually turned down a few offers because they were corporate or I didn't trust the company's philosophy. I have been accepted into a medical program and deferred a year so I can check out the job market. In casual conversation with INTJ's mom, I told her how I wanted to find a proper job and hated the search. Her response? "Yeah right. You don't want a job. You want to sit at home where mom and dad feed you and pay your bills." She has equated me with her son who hasn't accomplished even a toenail of what I have accomplished. Even in my spare time, I do math problems, read, and write FOR FUN because I don't want my brain to go to waste. This is in addition to the 3-4 hours I spend daily looking for a career.

With that being said, I think I've found the organization for me in Teach for America.

Here you beat your chest in the most extraordinary manner. I have a hard time believing some of this. So, you went to a prestigious university and got a degree in philosophy? And then were admitted to medical school? Philosophy isn't the typical pre-med degree, but maybe you could be telling the truth here.

It's when you say that you have received a bunch of job offers and actually turned down a few "because they were corporate or I didn't trust the company's philosophy" that I really have to take a step back. 'Everyone' knows you can't get a job with a general humanities degree; least of all with a degree in Philosophy. But not only are you able to find a job, you are able to turn down offers! On ethical grounds!

Okay, I admit that the common stereotype of being unable to get a job with a liberal arts degree is misleading. You can find some jobs. But instead of being desperate for whatever you can get, you are actually turning stuff down? This strains credulity. Unless you went to Harvard... Why don't you name this prestigious university for us?

In closing, I want to contrast the qualities you have attributed to yourself, and the qualities you have attributed to your friend; we'll see if the two line up in any conceivable way.

Your Friend: Smoking marijuana, sexist, close to homophobic, maybe a little bit racist, a messed up family, a huge ego, lies about having an IQ in the 140s, no job, no plan to get a job, and rubbing his sole accomplishment (a cute gf) in your face in the most shallow manner. And he cusses at you when he loses an argument.

You: A high achiever, graduated from a prestigious university, accepted into medical school, offered jobs, an IQ in the 140s, belonging to a minority group, against sexism and homophobia, a rational view of yourself (lol), driven to succeed. And you are a great friend; you refuse to go do stuff with all your other friends unless they invite the drug addict along with you.

So, the above doesn't get to all of the many things you have said about yourself and him, but I think the message is clear. You have some explaining to do.

 

[Honor]

Okay, so you made your opening statement which lots of people have seen, but perhaps some people miss this fine bit of egoism. I will address it in chunks, referencing your opening post as well.



Okay, so here when someone questions whether you are really friends, you respond by saying IDK, and then bringing out more dirt on your 'friend'.

You bring up a real friend, and mention his ethnicity over and over for some reason, and then point out that your 'friend' with whom you have no interests in common got jealous. This suggests a hint of racism.




Now, you are no longer satisfied with trashing your 'friend', so you drag in his family, all of whom are apparently horrible. What does 'the dad is not what I'd call a man' mean? You also mention your 'real' friend's ethnicity again, and attribute an exact quote to his mother in which she plays to a traditional racial stereotype of Asians. Apparently to make sure that we don't miss her racism, you specifically deny that she was being racist (although your reason contradicting this makes no sense to me).



Here you beat your chest in the most extraordinary manner. I have a hard time believing some of this. So, you went to a prestigious university and got a degree in philosophy? And then were admitted to medical school? Philosophy isn't the typical pre-med degree, but maybe you could be telling the truth here.

It's when you say that you have received a bunch of job offers and actually turned down a few "because they were corporate or I didn't trust the company's philosophy" that I really have to take a step back. 'Everyone' knows you can't get a job with a general humanities degree; least of all with a degree in Philosophy. But not only are you able to find a job, you are able to turn down offers! On ethical grounds!

Okay, I admit that the common stereotype of being unable to get a job with a liberal arts degree is misleading. You can find some jobs. But instead of being desperate for whatever you can get, you are actually turning stuff down? This strains credulity. Unless you went to Harvard... Why don't you name this prestigious university for us?

In closing, I want to contrast the qualities you have attributed to yourself, and the qualities you have attributed to your friend; we'll see if the two line up in any conceivable way.

Your Friend: Smoking marijuana, sexist, close to homophobic, maybe a little bit racist, a messed up family, a huge ego, lies about having an IQ in the 140s, no job, no plan to get a job, and rubbing his sole accomplishment (a cute gf) in your face in the most shallow manner. And he cusses at you when he loses an argument.

You: A high achiever, graduated from a prestigious university, accepted into medical school, offered jobs, an IQ in the 140s, belonging to a minority group, against sexism and homophobia, a rational view of yourself (lol), driven to succeed. And you are a great friend; you refuse to go do stuff with all your other friends unless they invite the drug addict along with you.

So, the above doesn't get to all of the many things you have said about yourself and him, but I think the message is clear. You have some explaining to do.

I graduated from Duke in 2012 with a degree in the humanities and have turned down jobs in several fields since (and accepted a couple). Also, I have more than one friend who majored in philosophy who went to medical school.

 

[BlackDog]

I grant that what he says might be true. Pretty much any one part is possible. It's the whole package I think is very difficult to swallow. If this guy was a friend he had in the past, that would be one thing. But he claims that he goes everywhere with this guy in one of his other posts; I am trying to paint a picture contrasting the two because I think one or the other is impossible; either he isn't as great as he says, or his friend isn't as morally and personally awful. However, I concede I overstated the internal inconsistencies of his account.

So, in light of what you say, I apologize to idkman24 for criticizing him for internal inconsistency when I wasn't sufficiently up on the facts myself. However, I still hold to the part of the post addressing the great improbabilities involved in a guy like this being friends with a guy like his 'friend'.

 

[Honor]

I grant that what he says might be true. Pretty much any one part is possible. It's the whole package I think is very difficult to swallow. If this guy was a friend he had in the past, that would be one thing. But he claims that he goes everywhere with this guy in one of his other posts; I am trying to paint a picture contrasting the two because I think one or the other is impossible; either he isn't as great as he says, or his friend isn't as morally and personally awful. However, I concede I overstated the internal inconsistencies of his account.

So, in light of what you say, I apologize to idkman24 for criticizing him for internal inconsistency when I wasn't sufficiently up on the facts myself. However, I still hold to the part of the post addressing the great improbabilities involved in a guy like this being friends with a guy like his 'friend'.

haha. i'm not disputing the underlying premise of your post (that the answer to his problem lies within the discrepancy that you described). i just don't think the situation is as implausible as you think it is.

listen, i live in a world of deeply ambitious people. some of my friends in college were hospitalized for conditions they developed due to prolonged, excessive stress. one friend, the son of bernie madoff's accountant, killed himself. when you live in a world like that, where no accomplishment is enough, sometimes you seek an outlet amongst people who live in a radically different reality. it gives you a way to ground yourself rather than getting completely consumed by the tunnel to success that is your daily life.

 

[BlackDog]

Okay, let's say that your analysis is true: he is seeking an outlet with this guy, and that's the real reason he keeps hanging around him. How would you explain his immature "I destroyed this guy" attitude online, of all places? Frustration, maybe?

 

[Clementine]

He sounds like a typical INTJ. How awesome are they as friends? Love them!

Also, INTjs don't lose debates. If they stop talking to you during one, it's because they think you're an illogical twerp/and or there is nothing to gain from continuing.

I am a fellow INFJ and even so, your calls to authority and errors in logic are hard for ME to read. That poor INTJ. However does he cope?!