[NT] How are INTJs different from INTPs?

[Tallulah]

Hmmm, I think I might have done the clingy thing when I was younger, maybe--I mean MUCH, MUCH younger. And I don't mean, like, emotionally clingy, just maybe I might have talked a couple of people's ears off if I liked them. I think INTPs don't find all that many people that they relate to, and if you're young and don't get all the social nuances that your average outgoing kid would, you probably just go with the excitement of finding someone you relate to.

I remember talking my best friend's mother's ear off one time when I was pretty young, and she made a reference to it, teasingly, to my mom when I was in the room, and I was so embarrassed that I was aware of doing that kind of thing from that point on.

 

[TPol]

Okay....I can see that part. I did that once when I was little and figured out a fellow I knew was a retired jet fighter pilot turned commercial airline pilot. He babysat me once, and I got to ask him all the questions I wanted!

 

[Simplexity]

I have a tendency to do that still! but I've learned to taper off a bit. I still remember seeing some of the glazed over looks of some of my friends when I wasn't fully aware of that. I see it sometimes as reciprocation because I endure a ton of conversation (being talked at, or asked to analyze) on a bunch of junk I could care less about.

Ironically I do this to my INTJ dad a lot. Sometimes it's more so to strip him of his narcissistic certainty. I see it as taking advantage of others that can solidify your knowledge. Stripping off some of the ambiguities of your mental constructs and allowing you to really express what's on your hectic mind. I have little knowledge of how to let it out in little, easily digestible, presentable pieces. I just have an amount counter (ticking clock of how long I've droned on). Excitability can screw it up a bit.

I've heard INTJs say they go through this process internally and that's why when they present something they're so assured and certain and don't necessarily enjoy the pondering and theorizing. It's already been done and discussed. Progression is the key when they put something out. So it's probably less likely to lead to clingy behavior on their behalf, although if I show I'm interested in something my dad will sort of cling but it's always in the form of a school project: a defined beginning, middle, and end. They only flesh out in the confines of a certain predefined scope. They don't venture to far off and have a well thought out end goal.

 

[bluebell]

I find that I am often in a conversation on a topic I've spent considerable time pondering. I'll mull over something for a period of years sometimes. When, in the conversation, opinions or points are expressed that I've already discarded (after extensive consideration), I come across as close-minded. I don't like coming across as close-minded but once I've identified what I see as a logical flaw or an inconsistency with the big picture, I am no longer open to the idea.

I do this a lot, even now. I try to hide my annoyance but probably not very well. I'm fairly sure I'm INTP, not INTJ though. I think I run on Ti rather than Ni.

I know you clarified that this is your personal experience, but this is really quite surprising to me. Admittedly, I know only one other INTP in real life besides me. Both of us have been accused of the opposite...a lot. Also, very few online seem this way to me. I'm often told I am too independent, don't talk enough, hard to get to know, not showing my feelings enough, etc. If my friends heard someone call me clingy, they'd guffaw.

Are the INTPs you know really young? Are you sure you typed them correctly?

What TPol said. I'm too withdrawn/detached if anything and the two INTPs I know IRL are the same.

 

[bluebell]

I've heard INTJs say they go through this process internally and that's why when they present something they're so assured and certain and don't necessarily enjoy the pondering and theorizing. It's already been done and discussed.

Damnit, now I'm starting to think I'm INTJ-ish after reading this thread.

 

[Simplexity]

Damnit, now I'm starting to think I'm INTJ-ish after reading this thread.

I think in the case of an INTP the key factor in determining this is your facility with Ne. In essence whether you think Ti is your absolute tried and true method when it comes to theorizing or whether you're comfortable deferring some of the analysis and comprehension duties to Ne.

I know personally when I theorize on subjects I'm interested in I similarly do it on my own time. Often times much before I openly discuss it. However, I view discussions with others as an opportunity to really stretch out my thoughts. I'm not necessarily interested in parsing or coming to a conclusion per se. I've heard other INTPs on this site express that they rely on their own methods a lot more and almost have an advisory board which they toss around their ideas with internally. That contributes a large degree to their certainty and unwillingness to really revisit topics already "discussed."

In INTJs based on my own personal experience it's as if the schemata or structure is already in place and the hierarchical progression is what's more up for debate. In essence for them it seems like the truth value of the overall system and how they've constructed is valid. If it is and you can't provide evidence as to why it's not, it's irrelevant at that point in time. They're not usually willing to test out, expand, discuss the overall scope, or other "possibilities" relating to the fundamental nature of their proposition for any length of time.

In their defense it is usually sound based on their intuition. Their propositions are strongly rooted to their internal vision and from an INTP perspective there is sometimes a reluctance to shift and adapt your perspective based on the "imperfections" sometimes inherent in those visions. There is sort of a clash between what you're referencing and that is where some of the differences between Ni-Te and Ti-Ne come into play. Again I think it ultimately comes down to what your ultimate goal is when it comes to discussions, in my case I use it as an opportunity to flesh out, instead of one to codify or test the ultimate practicality of my decisions. I rely on my solitary time to do that.

 

[Haphazard]

This is how INTJs and INTPs work.

My father is an INTP, I'm an INTJ.

I tell my father that I need a program for organizing my writing. He starts a search looking for it, and I get from another source a recommendation for a program. I download the trial, and it works fine, doesn't slow down my computer, etc. In short, I think it's fine and dandy.

I tell my dad about this program, he looks through everything he can find about this program, says "Hey it looks neat, I might want a copy!" And then day after day after day he keeps telling me about other programs that don't do anything like what I want to do but are "neat" and "have to do with writing" (usually meaning making things 'look nice' rather than having anything to do with organization. Which I don't need, at all.)

It's been over a week, and he's still at it. I just want to buy the damn program and do what I wanted it for -- write.

 

[Nihilen]

I've heard INTJs say they go through this process internally and that's why when they present something they're so assured and certain and don't necessarily enjoy the pondering and theorizing.

I am very much INTP and I don't enjoy debates, I have already thought about everything that interests me so much and gone through all the arguments possible that I'm pretty certain I'm right about them. And I really don't care about sharing my views or forcing them on anyone.

I enjoy discussions though, about new subjects or subjects I'm still uncertain of.

 

[Risen]

This is how INTJs and INTPs work.

My father is an INTP, I'm an INTJ.

I tell my father that I need a program for organizing my writing. He starts a search looking for it, and I get from another source a recommendation for a program. I download the trial, and it works fine, doesn't slow down my computer, etc. In short, I think it's fine and dandy.

I tell my dad about this program, he looks through everything he can find about this program, says "Hey it looks neat, I might want a copy!" And then day after day after day he keeps telling me about other programs that don't do anything like what I want to do but are "neat" and "have to do with writing" (usually meaning making things 'look nice' rather than having anything to do with organization. Which I don't need, at all.)

It's been over a week, and he's still at it. I just want to buy the damn program and do what I wanted it for -- write.

Lol, I think your dad is just trying to help you out more . Just tell him you've got everything you need already and I'm sure he'll get it.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

INTJs are MUCH sexier.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

The two INT types are extremely similar. Is the INTP more like the ENTP or the INTJ? The answer might be either one depending on what criteria you are using. The ENTP and INTP use the same functions, so they process things in an extremely similar fashion. However introverts and extraverts ultimately have different goals, motivations, etc... which are most important to them. That is why you can say the INTJ is the most similar to the INTP, because INT's are ultimately interested in the same types of things, but they process information and therefore achieve their goals in totally different fashions.

For example both INT types are interested in developing new (and desirably correct) ideas. But how they develop these ideas tends to be totally different. An INTP might read a wide variety of sources and listen to a wide variety of people to generate hypotheses, but internally each one is carefully weighed logically and compared to the framework of conclusions that they have already reached. In this way an INTP slowly and carefully builds an elaborate mental framework relating to the subject he is trying to develop.

In contrast an INTJ might come up with an entirely novel idea on their own, but then they need some way to test how true it actually is. So then they might look up what the latest research on the idea is, and then reach a conclusion and go onto the next thing. Or alternatively they might perform some type of experiment (possibly even on themselves) in order to reach a conclusion.

So in general INTJ's and INTP's are very similar in what they want, but totally different in how they go about getting it.

can you repeat the same thing for the ENTJs funtion, and ENTPs

ENTJ's and ENTP's are analogous to what I've said above. ENT's have very similar motivations, but how they process information and achieve goals is totally different.

For example both ENT types are attracted to abstract ideas, but they are much more interested in applying these ideas to the real world than INT's are. ENT's want their ideas to externally achieve something, but the ENTJ leads with thinking and uses intuition for support, while the ENTP is opposite leading with intuition. So when achieving a goal an ENTJ might first look for the most efficient method possible, while the ENTP might look for the most original method possible. (Of course it's possible that in looking for the most efficient method the ENTJ develops a totally original one, and likewise the ENTP could invent the most efficient method by starting with a novel approach.)

Ultimately why the ENT types do what they do is very similar, but the how tends to be totally different.

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

very enlightening post, and additionally, very badass username too.

 

[Eirhead]

I typically score a 1% on J half the time and 1% on P half the time. I don't think the test is designed to give you a 0%, but that's what I probably am.

Most of the "differences" that you guys bring up are either weapons at my disposal, or points of inner-conflict. I'd like to think that more often than not, I can flip between INTJ and INTP to choose which personality is best suited for the situation. Let me just say this, after I'm done exploring something, it get's turfed really hard in my list of interests. I go through so many phases yearly or even monthly, it's hard to control.

 

[bloodyfungus]

I typically score a 1% on J half the time and 1% on P half the time. I don't think the test is designed to give you a 0%, but that's what I probably am.

Most of the "differences" that you guys bring up are either weapons at my disposal, or points of inner-conflict. I'd like to think that more often than not, I can flip between INTJ and INTP to choose which personality is best suited for the situation. Let me just say this, after I'm done exploring something, it get's turfed really hard in my list of interests. I go through so many phases yearly or even monthly, it's hard to control.

I can understand this totally. An example of mine is that at work I am much more structured, but I still don't like to tie myself down to moronic meetings and arbritrary deadlines, but I still like to work to a plan.

In my homelife I find that I am the one organising bills to be paid, holidays to be sorted, planning when to leave out etc etc rather than my ISFJ partner. Though I think this is because I've learnt from past mistakes or trying to avoid a situation I don't want to be stuck in

My P/J came out at 56/44 and I have always flipped between having everything structured and organised and then thinking "oh b*gger it" and just let the world run its path.

 

[Hendo Barbarosa]

I'm pretty sure I'm the INTJ version of what you described. I've always had a heavy amount of P balancing it out, but after I left the christian faith, I started to have a lot more J in day-to-day life, and I personally identify more with the J. Potentially a result of being raised with the golden rule and then not necessarily needing it to make myself happy?

just a theory. I can say for certain that I can vividly remember being Ne trounced by INTPs often in my life...