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  1. #11
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    In theory Ni is, in itself, very sensitive to how mental constructs are relative to differing points of view. Te is then used to establish what points of view are more empirically legitimate.
    You are correct, I find that I can look at things from so many angles that it is sometimes impossible for me to form 1 solid opinion. It's like I start out and then a whole sequence of "yes, but what ifs" starts rolling out into infinity. Cognitive processes said I was Ne Ni Ti Fi so maybe this is Ne influenced? But I'm not sure in how far these results are trustworthy.

    Ti in itself is a lot more fixed and rigid than Ni and there is very little you can do about Ti principles in a discussion. They just won't budge.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    There are a remarkable number of similarities when you compare them to the rest of the populace, but when comparing them to each other they're completely different.

    INTPs are intellectually open-ended. INTJs need intellectual closure. INTPs also usually appear more playful. INTJs strive for ruthless practicality while INTPs strive for total understanding. INTJs really only need the gist of something to get working on it, while INTPs need something more complete. INTJs often have more 'force' behind them and be more easily angered. INTPs tend to be friendlier and get more frustrated with people rather than angry. The most important difference has been said here already, that INTPs like abstract thought for the sake of abstract thought, but for the INTJ it must be applied to be worth anything to them.

    I guess it's like, if you look at archetypes, INTJs are your angry smart guys, INTPs are your absentminded professors.

    Oh yeah, and INTJs like archetypes.
    Actually, I would say it's more like INTJs are interested in ideas that they can work into a theoretical model, and then they're only interested in the ideas or tools that they can use to apply their own ideas. For example, an INTJ college student would be more likely to resist taking the classes that have no relation to their goals, whereas the INTP would be more curious.

    I tend to not be interested in classes unless they make the expression of my vision easier. I like to design roller coasters with a computer program and I like to make them as realistic as possible. To do that, I need to know mathematical forumulas...but I'm not interested in all the bullshit algebra that has no use to what I'm trying to do. I just want the tools that I can use for my own plans...anything else is a waste of time.

    More than anything else, the INTJ wants to get his vision out in the most efficient and quickest way possible.

    As they are interested in usefulness, the INTJ actually has more in common with the ISTP and ISTJ...and, of course, the INFJ. All these types are of a Chart-the-Course interaction style.

    On the other hand, however, the INTJ could be very impractical because, being dominated by Ni, they could be so focused on their goal that they forget to look at the steps to make it a reality -- this is one of the major problems I have in dealing with the world; I'm too obsessed with the goal and I don't want to go through the unpleasant reality of reaching it -- and this is something that many other types have less trouble with.

  3. #13
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Correction: An immature INTJ will only be open to their own ideas and will throw away the ideas of others without consideration, saying that "that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!"

    A mature INTJ will hear you out, consider all the options and all the angles, and then tell you "that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!"

    I think what you're mistaking for myopicness is just be their arguing style. Theirs is right, yours is wrong, until you can prove it to them otherwise. It's a challenge to you rather than closemindedness.
    *sigh* Some things can't be proved logically though.

  4. #14
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmm View Post
    *sigh* Some things can't be proved logically though.
    INTJs are primarily intuitive. If you say something that appeals to intuition and has a drop of common sense in it, they'll probably think it's worth noticing. There's also the matter that things that can't be dealt with logically are not really in the domains of what the INTJ likes to argue about.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #15
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    There's also the matter that things that can't be dealt with logically are not really in the domains of what the INTJ likes to argue about.
    Pretty much everything can be dealt with logically on some level, no? It's the approach you take that counts.

  6. #16
    seor member colmena's Avatar
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    J scares me if it doesn't come with F, unless they're an endearing S.

    I still like INTJs, though. I look up to their straightforwardness whilst their mind is going a mile a minute.
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    -What are you talking about?
    -Endymion, my dear. A beautiful youth possessed by the moon.
    -Well, forget about him and get to bed.
    -Yes, my dear.

  7. #17
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    INTPs are more logical, but INTJs are more efficient.

    Also, it is theoretically possible for INTJs to be more motivated by emotion...in fact, this is probably more true of them than INFJs. This is due to the INTJ's tertiary Fi, which means they could have a stronger sense of internal values.

    When not extroverting, the INTJ uses Ni and Fi, which could combine to form an idea subconsciously motivated by passion, which is then expressed forcefully via Te, without regard to established norms.

    The INFJ, by contrast, uses Ni and Ti, so they are more motivated by imagination like the INTJ, but their tertiary function is motivated by pure reason and logic. When these introverted functions work together, we get the stereotype of the INFJ being a psychic prophet, or the paranoid person whose conspiracies are right...it's the axis of Ni's imagination and Ti's penchant for logical skepticism.

    When functioning internally, the INTP uses Ti and Si, and this is how they represent the "walking encyclopedia" stereotype or a person who is interested in learning for the sake of learning. Ti analyzes the logical fluency of Si's internal forms. When engaging their Ne, the INTP has a knack for gaining a new way of logically seeing reasons behind things.

    The ISTP, using Ti and Ni internally, is probably the source of this type's tendency to be rebellious. When engaging Se externally, the ISTP is able to use these functions for troubleshooting. This type is also stereotypically a keen observer of subtle changes in the environment. And since Se alone is focused on pure enjoyment of physical impulses, the function is modified for the ISTP and is thus more graceful and conscientious of them -- they are less reckless in expression of physical impulses. They use Ti to satisfy Se, and Ni serves this type's improvisational skills. I have observed, too, that many ISTPs are indeed interested in martial arts, individual sports, mechanics, working with tools, etc., and at the core, the ISTP, like the INTP cousin, is into science and mathematical theory, but the difference is that the ISTP will use the theory for more applied purposes (troubleshooting, observation, labwork, and so forth), while the INTP will use it to dream up something new with their auxiliary Ne.

    So the INTJ and ISTP are more similar in that they are more concerned with usefulness. But the INTJ is more useful in that he uses the external world for purposes of fulfilling a vision, while the ISTP uses the internal world as a means for planning the next physical move. Now the INTJ also has Se as an inferior function, but since it is so undeveloped, the INTJ could merely fantasize about the physical responses to make by imagining various scenarios -- a famous example of an INTJ is, therefore, Travis Bickle in the film Taxi Driver -- the ISTP is more about analyzing opportunities for the next move.

  8. #18
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    This thread is fascinating.

  9. #19
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    We are actually able to see the POV of the other from their perspective, and if you have any value to us we'll take that perspective regularly. If we reject it, it's because we would reject it no matter who devised it (including if we did).

    INTPs are the unbending ones - their Ti inner world is not malleable, though it is usually more correct. They seek absolute truths, while we are happy with relative truths that may change and refine over time.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  10. #20
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Algora J View Post
    This is just my personal experience with INTPs vs. INTJs.

    INTJs give you lots of space. They don't intrude, they are very respectful. However, they can sometimes be really close minded and myopic in their thinking. They always have to be right and everyone is wrong. They are difficult people because they always assume the other is wrong before starting a conversation.

    INTPs are open minded, warm, very caring, but they are sort of smothering. They always want you to initiate conversations with them, and you're always making most of the effort in communication. Once they warm up to you, they are very open, but still, they keep talking and talking and don't know when to stop sometimes and give you space and breathing room.

    Both are very different. If I had to choose, I rather hang out with INTPs! (aside from the fact that they are very clingy!)

    INTJs- there's just something off-putting about the fact that they always have to be right and cannot see from other people's POV that puts me off.
    Haha about INTP's! That was actually a reason why I was thinking I might be an INFP or ENTP.
    INTP makes the most sense though.
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