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  1. #11
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    Yeah, you're right.

    I mean, she knows my intentions. I told her I liked her, so it's not a matter of uncertainty.

    If she does end up with another guy, I think that's the signal for me to drop her completely.

    I've dated quite a few girls before. I don't think she's seriously dated anyone (except when she was 19, she dated a German guy in her study abroad -- she still puts a lot of weight into this saying he's "the only guy that understood her." She was 19. I think she was just a young girl looking for love on a study abroad).

    Anyway, I didn't actually date this girl, but I never felt more compatible to a girl in terms of similar values, world views, morals, and ambitions. We even like similar things. To me, it just makes sense, but she doesn't see it.

    The idealist in me would love for her to come around, but, perhaps it's because she's only 21, I don't think that's going to happen. She constantly has many guys crushing on her (typical of an ENTP). I think she'll always have a sense of "I can do better," but I honestly think there isn't a guy better for her than I am.

    Ah well. There's this ESFP girl who has been trying to hang out with me for quite some time now. Maybe I should give her a call...
    If you disappear and she seeks you out, that's a great sign. IF she's not just talking about some other guy, of course. And, sure she'll have the sense that she can do better, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'd think she could have a better guy. Ha! ENTPs as you're finding out right now can get extremely attached and can apply that 'do better' attitude to the relationship. Optimizing it instead of seeking another.

    If that other guy rejected her before she had a chance to tweak it then hey, she could be feeling for him what you're feeling for her. That it could work if only...

    We analyze the crap out of it and then logic our way out of things, even relationships when they're bad for us. If she wants to be around you, you'll know. She'll eventually cave and contact you if it's that important to her. Either way, good luck with the other chick if that's what you want.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    If you disappear and she seeks you out, that's a great sign. IF she's not just talking about some other guy, of course. And, sure she'll have the sense that she can do better, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'd think she could have a better guy. Ha! ENTPs as you're finding out right now can get extremely attached and can apply that 'do better' attitude to the relationship. Optimizing it instead of seeking another.

    If that other guy rejected her before she had a chance to tweak it then hey, she could be feeling for him what you're feeling for her. That it could work if only...

    We analyze the crap out of it and then logic our way out of things, even relationships when they're bad for us. If she wants to be around you, you'll know. She'll eventually cave and contact you if it's that important to her. Either way, good luck with the other chick if that's what you want.
    It's not what I want. Getting my mind off of this ENTP is what I want. My damned INFJ idealist self SMH.

    I laid it out easy for her. Told her if she wants a date, give me a call.

    Perhaps I should go no-contact and see where things fall.

    Thank you for your help, @digesthisickness

  3. #13
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    It's not what I want. Getting my mind off of this ENTP is what I want. My damned INFJ idealist self SMH.

    I laid it out easy for her. Told her if she wants a date, give me a call.

    Perhaps I should go no-contact and see where things fall.

    Thank you for your help, @digesthisickness
    No contact is actually a good idea for both of you, I think. She can't miss you (and thus recognize that she cares) unless you're gone, and you can be distracted a little in the interim. If it makes it easier on you, you can always put a time limit on it. Like, say, a month or two. You're welcome.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    No contact is actually a good idea for both of you, I think. She can't miss you (and thus recognize that she cares) unless you're gone, and you can be distracted a little in the interim. If it makes it easier on you, you can always put a time limit on it. Like, say, a month or two. You're welcome.
    I don't know. She may just be like that to all of her guy friends. She has told me things about herself that I don't think she readily shares with other people, and of course, I pick up things about her (like insecurities, imperfections, little white lies she tells) because I read her like a book. Sometimes I blow her mind when I reveal something about her that she didn't explicitly communicate with me.

    She has really made it a point to look at me as a friend. I still think there is something in her that she likes me. Her best friend isn't my biggest fan (ESTJ), but some of her other friends really like me (ENFPs, INFPs, etc.) The difference I have on her other friends is we got drunk together, we made out, and she had her naked body pressed against mine.

    But, like my best friends say, that was months ago. Things have changed. The first time we hung out, it seemed like she wanted to talk about it, and she did bring up that I read "too much into it," but I dismissed it all as "in the past." Then, the second time we hung out, I think we both got 'closure' about that night, in a sense. She told me that I was just a one-night stand (which is half accurate, but I'm certain she liked me, if even a little bit), and I told her why I tactlessly said 'no' to her right before she was about to pull down my boxer briefs (I could pick up that she still had feelings for her "best guy friend," and I felt like a one night stand). She had a look of disappointment in herself when I said this, so I grabbed her, laughed, and said "it's not a problem, it was so long ago."

    Some of my friends tell me to get over it, that I'm thinking too much into a fling. I've had flings before, and I've never had this happen to me (except when I lost my virginity -- but that's a different story). Other friends tell me that since I saw her naked already, she HAS to be attracted to me, even if it's only in her subconscious. It doesn't matter that it was 9 months ago.

    Our main arena of contact is through Facebook messaging. She HATES using the phone. Sometimes, I'll go online, see that she's on, and we won't talk. Sometimes, she'll start a conversation with me. Sometimes I with her. I made it so she can't see that I'm online anymore. Going to go through with it 2-4 weeks. As soon as I get contact from her, I'll come to this forum. I don't think ignoring her is the way to go (ENTPs hate being ignored -- IME, ignore an ENTP, they'll just move to something else that's shiny), but I need to find a way, without having contact or being in her vicinity (she goes to school 40 minutes from my house) to pull myself from her subconscious and into her conscious mind.

    I think the last things I said (we are incredibly similar, admitting I liked her, telling her that I love listening to her, telling her that I find her adorable, telling her that I love how she bounces around with her Ne and she doesn't even realize it, and it gives me a lot to think about, research, and draws vivid images in my head, and telling her that her current INFJ crush is an idiot for not realizing what he's missing out on) was the PERFECT way to end my contact with her. Since it's in her messages inbox, she can read and re-read it. I think, now that she's doing a lot of self-reflection and trying to understand herself, she may think about everything I've told her and our interactions together, and how we could fit with each other in the long run.

    Perfect way to end things.

    This "fearful-avoidant" thing she claims to have may also spell 'doom' for me.

    Also, from what I understand this INFJ guy and her are, at the very least, "still friends" and hang out. She told me her "INFJ pal" spoke to her when she was down. I think she may have an INFJ girl friend, but I'm not sure. I still find it rather curious that, in her "blackout" state where she was feeling very, very sad, I wasn't even online and she messaged me to tell me that. Again, her subconscious is telling her something, but I don't think I can spell it out any further for her. Her intuition has to do the rest.

    OR

    She'll just toss everything, pull an ENTP, find another guy that finds her interesting (which isn't that hard), get her sexual stimulation from an ESxJ "bro," and forget about me.

    I'll keep you guys posted.

    She's active on the MBTI forums, so I hope she doesn't come across this. I don't think she uses this site though. Maybe just to gather information (hence the pretty vague thread title).

  5. #15
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    We're avoidant when it's something we want to avoid. We forget when something is forgettable, not because we're distracted. The two go hand in hand. We can't escape our feelings so easily. Not once we feel. I fear you may make the mistake of thinking you're getting the full picture when we just aren't as easy to read as people like to think we are. We're good actors and can fool you into thinking all is okay if we like quite easily. Very practiced at hiding the vulnerable parts. Telling us you can see right into us and know us so well and how easy that is isn't such a great move. We know better you see, and because of that, you appear quite foolish, presumptuous, and full of yourself. More into you than us.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    We're avoidant when it's something we want to avoid. We forget when something is forgettable, not because we're distracted. The two go hand in hand. We can't escape our feelings so easily. Not once we feel. I fear you may make the mistake of thinking you're getting the full picture when we just aren't as easy to read as people like to think we are. We're good actors and can fool you into thinking all is okay if we like quite easily. Very practiced at hiding the vulnerable parts. Telling us you can see right into us and know us so well and how easy that is isn't such a great move. We know better you see, and because of that, you appear quite foolish, presumptuous, and full of yourself. More into you than us.
    I know that this is the downfall of the INFJ. So I always was careful how I worded it. I would start sentences with "now, I could be wrong but..." or "it seems to me that you're..." If she ever told me I was wrong or misread something, I just accepted it.

    I know how annoying it is to presume. I've lost friends who tried to prescribe me with "you are this way" or "you are that way" and when I tell them that they're wrong about me, they tell me that I am wrong about ME. So, I know that's frustrating. I have one friend who particular (who, ironically, introduced me to this ENTP) who is ALSO into MBTI. He tries to prescribe Si-dom and Si-aux types because I insist to him I'm an Ni-dom. He'll say "noooo.......you live your life in the past...." and I'll tell him "dude, I have video reel upon video reel about things that happened to me in the past, true, but at my very core I'm a future planner." He'll tell me I'm full of ish.

    So, yes, I know presuming a lot about someone is annoying. I can't stand it personally. I was careful not to. But sometimes, she'd admit I was right, and I never claimed (to her anyways) that I know more about her than she thinks (even though I do believe this is the case).

    She comes across very ESTP "Little Miss Perfect," charming, seductive, and brilliant in public. I've told her though I love her public persona, I think it's all a cover up. That conversation is actually what wanted her to hang out with me. She admitted I was correct in this assumption.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    She told me that I was just a one-night stand (which is half accurate, but I'm certain she liked me, if even a little bit), and I told her why I tactlessly said 'no' to her right before she was about to pull down my boxer briefs (I could pick up that she still had feelings for her "best guy friend," and I felt like a one night stand). She had a look of disappointment in herself when I said this, so I grabbed her, laughed, and said "it's not a problem, it was so long ago."

    Some of my friends tell me to get over it, that I'm thinking too much into a fling. I've had flings before, and I've never had this happen to me (except when I lost my virginity -- but that's a different story). Other friends tell me that since I saw her naked already, she HAS to be attracted to me, even if it's only in her subconscious. It doesn't matter that it was 9 months ago.
    Why would you listen to your friends and not to what she is telling you? Especially when you know from your own experience that flings don't mean anything. Do you imagine it's different for a woman? It's not. Your friends aren't helping you by telling you what you want to hear. You're not helping yourself. Your infatuation is clouding your judgement. Digest is right, you're doing that annoying NF thing of insisting you know someone better than they know themselves - that will only alienate and irritate her. And you are only harming yourself by pining for someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. She doesn't want a relationship with you. A drunken fumble doesn't change that. She told you she was using you. She was. If she hadn't been, she'd have been much more upset by your rejection, instead of apologising to you. The fact that you are prepared to continue to let her use you will only make her lose respect for you.
    I think this is as open and shut as it gets. I'm not saying it's impossible that she could develop feelings for you at some point, when she gets past this other guy, but you need to accept on face value what she is telling you right now and stop wasting your time imagining otherwise: she's not into you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why would you listen to your friends and not to what she is telling you? Especially when you know from your own experience that flings don't mean anything. Do you imagine it's different for a woman? It's not. Your friends aren't helping you by telling you what you want to hear. You're not helping yourself. Your infatuation is clouding your judgement. Digest is right, you're doing that annoying NF thing of insisting you know someone better than they know themselves - that will only alienate and irritate her. And you are only harming yourself by pining for someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. She doesn't want a relationship with you. A drunken fumble doesn't change that. She told you she was using you. She was. If she hadn't been, she'd have been much more upset by your rejection, instead of apologising to you. The fact that you are prepared to continue to let her use you will only make her lose respect for you.
    I think this is as open and shut as it gets. I'm not saying it's impossible that she could develop feelings for you at some point, when she gets past this other guy, but you need to accept on face value what she is telling you right now and stop wasting your time imagining otherwise: she's not into you.
    She's a walking defense mechanism. A lot of the things she says I don't initially believe. For instance, she has called me "creepy" before, and after ten more minutes of talking with her, we planned a hangout. She even admitted that she knowingly triggers her defenses around guys that she even LIKES. She hates this about herself. I think that's where the attachment issues she told me about come in.

    I know she liked me, even though she says otherwise. I just remember having that feeling. I usually can see thru people's BS, and she definitely did like me. Even if just a smidgeon.

    Otherwise, you may be right. She could have absolutely 0 interest in me today. But, as a social experiment and just to see what'll happen, I cut off ALL communication with her. She can still contact me, and if she does, I'll probably come back to this thread for coaching and also I'll take my jolly old time responding.

    Either way, she either contacts me, wonders where I've gone off to, and we'll go from there, OR I just lose complete contact with her, and in a month or two am over her.

    Win-win.

  9. #19
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    She is confused about what she wants. Afraid to be "weak", to be vulnerable. Intimacy (and peculiarly, NOT sexual intimacy) is awkward for her. I'm sure she feels like a bull in a china shop when trying to respond to another's intimacy. And she's emotionally immature. And, you have become the outlet.

    It may translate to "games", that she doesn't even know she is playing with you, because her reaction to things are out of fear (illusionary bravado) rather than self-confidence/self-awareness.

    If you keep engaging with her, as you have, you both will keep going in circles.

    She needs to grow up, own who she is, what she wants - and if you're there during this phase, when you're a contributing factor to her confusion - you will enable her.

    You should not have to put up with this. And I don't think she's ready for you at this point in her life, to receive you as what you are (offering).

  10. #20
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    I know that this is the downfall of the INFJ. So I always was careful how I worded it. I would start sentences with "now, I could be wrong but..." or "it seems to me that you're..." If she ever told me I was wrong or misread something, I just accepted it.
    Is there some reason why you don't ask a question like a question? Instead of attaching yourself to it? Example: Why does...? or Are you...?

    Just wondering.

    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    I know how annoying it is to presume. I've lost friends who tried to prescribe me with "you are this way" or "you are that way" and when I tell them that they're wrong about me, they tell me that I am wrong about ME. So, I know that's frustrating. I have one friend who particular (who, ironically, introduced me to this ENTP) who is ALSO into MBTI. He tries to prescribe Si-dom and Si-aux types because I insist to him I'm an Ni-dom. He'll say "noooo.......you live your life in the past...." and I'll tell him "dude, I have video reel upon video reel about things that happened to me in the past, true, but at my very core I'm a future planner." He'll tell me I'm full of ish.
    You do tend to speak in concrete ways like an S, but that's just based on here, so I don't know. Hey, do you think you may be a bit attached to being an INFJ instead of ISFJ because you think that's what she wants? Hope not as that would never work and would only slow your progress, if it exists, down.

    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    So, yes, I know presuming a lot about someone is annoying. I can't stand it personally. I was careful not to. But sometimes, she'd admit I was right, and I never claimed (to her anyways) that I know more about her than she thinks (even though I do believe this is the case).
    You think you know more about her than she thinks you know about her, you mean? Possibly, if you know her social security number and she didn't give it, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like holding back what you think you know when talking to her is something you do, so she probably knows exactly how much you know. And, more importantly, how much you don't. How much no one does.

    If you're correct and it doesn't bother her, then that's cool, but I'd probably have to hear that from her. And, by probably, I mean I would have to hear that from her.

    Quote Originally Posted by idkman24 View Post
    She comes across very ESTP "Little Miss Perfect," charming, seductive, and brilliant in public. I've told her though I love her public persona, I think it's all a cover up. That conversation is actually what wanted her to hang out with me. She admitted I was correct in this assumption.
    HAHAHA!

    That's why horoscopes are popular. Everyone puts on some sort of public persona. We all have secrets.
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