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  1. #31
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Oh, interesting. It's difficult to push much since I hate intruding. But once I see I am allowed then I do it to the extent that I can do it with hands open palmed so they know what my intentions are.
    This is wise, useful, and probably much appreciated. Note that it should be attempted only if you know the INTJ very well, and has his/her trust. What I am describing is a perhaps unfortunate aspect of our intimate relationships, be they romantic or platonic. It is just plain hard to talk about certain things, to reveal certain things, however much we may trust you or even want to share them with those closest to us. Outside of an intimate relationship we will make sure the resistance succeeds, and is well camouflaged.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #32
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This is wise, useful, and probably much appreciated. Note that it should be attempted only if you know the INTJ very well, and has his/her trust. What I am describing is a perhaps unfortunate aspect of our intimate relationships, be they romantic or platonic. It is just plain hard to talk about certain things, to reveal certain things, however much we may trust you or even want to share them with those closest to us. Outside of an intimate relationship we will make sure the resistance succeeds, and is well camouflaged.
    Ohhh, that makes a lot of sense. And helps to clarify quite a bit of what I have suspected or perhaps noticed a hint of but didn't quite investigate.

    So let's say it IS well camouflaged but I am an emotional wunderkind and I sort of suspect and point something out and then holy hells the jerky mcjerkface intj mask comes out and it's like happy times at camp hugs are now over and the sun is rising in not the east and the ground just opened up beneath me and I have been sucked into a queer vortex of paper. Is All Ruination and I should just leave the situation or try to apologize or what? Or is what I am describing too vague for an adequate response?

  3. #33
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Ohhh, that makes a lot of sense. And helps to clarify quite a bit of what I have suspected or perhaps noticed a hint of but didn't quite investigate.

    So let's say it IS well camouflaged but I am an emotional wunderkind and I sort of suspect and point something out and then holy hells the jerky mcjerkface intj mask comes out and it's like happy times at camp hugs are now over and the sun is rising in not the east and the ground just opened up beneath me and I have been sucked into a queer vortex of paper. Is All Ruination and I should just leave the situation or try to apologize or what? Or is what I am describing too vague for an adequate response?
    It is vague, and the answer will depend strongly on circumstances such as how well you know each other, the nature of the relationship, your history/track record with this person, even whether your suspicions are correct. In all cases, though, the best response is minimalist: a simple "sorry" and move on as if it never happened (and know not to do it again).. If you know the person a bit better, say a close and longtime coworker, you might venture a simple "what's wrong?". The INTJ might share a tiny bit, or say outright he/she doesn't want to discuss it, or simply say "nothing". Again, just take the response you get, and don't make a big deal out of it. Other options will likely just make things worse.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is vague, and the answer will depend strongly on circumstances such as how well you know each other, the nature of the relationship, your history/track record with this person, even whether your suspicions are correct. In all cases, though, the best response is minimalist: a simple "sorry" and move on as if it never happened (and know not to do it again).. If you know the person a bit better, say a close and longtime coworker, you might venture a simple "what's wrong?". The INTJ might share a tiny bit, or say outright he/she doesn't want to discuss it, or simply say "nothing". Again, just take the response you get, and don't make a big deal out of it. Other options will likely just make things worse.
    Excellent. You make such a beautiful INTJ spokesperson.

  5. #35
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Excellent. You make such a beautiful INTJ spokesperson.
    I don't usually speak so freely from a "we" perspective, and should have made the usual caveat earlier about not being able to speak for all INTJs. Individuals vary significantly within each type. To the extent that we share common thought processes when it comes to vulnerability, intimacy, and personal sharing, it is probably safe to go by what I have said in the absence of contraindications.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't usually speak so freely from a "we" perspective, and should have made the usual caveat earlier about not being able to speak for all INTJs. Individuals vary significantly within each type. To the extent that we share common thought processes when it comes to vulnerability, intimacy, and personal sharing, it is probably safe to go by what I have said in the absence of contraindications.
    That makes sense. And I made sure to add the grain of salt caveat of, this is her perspective from experience and what makes sense. It's at least a reasonable goal post to stand by for the now if the other INTJ is unable to explain behavior in a manner sans rudeness.

  7. #37
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    That makes sense. And I made sure to add the grain of salt caveat of, this is her perspective from experience and what makes sense. It's at least a reasonable goal post to stand by for the now if the other INTJ is unable to explain behavior in a manner sans rudeness.
    Yes, when inappropriately prodded in the manner you have described, we do often react in a way that most people would consider rude. Carry on - and good luck.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I have had such a bustling busy day today that I've not had an opportunity to properly address this thread, though I have wanted to. I sincerely thank you @INTP for your input and insight. And I think for many people your approach would work. However, I know my friend well enough to know that even though I don't always know precisely what to say to him, I usually know what not to say to him. And although I do think she did him wrong, I don't think she's a bad person, but I do think she has some deep seated self-esteem issues and that perhaps having someone fall "in love" with her gives her some sense of self worth. I absolutely believe my friend is justified in his decision and I know that he has contemplated it long and hard before reaching his decision. Having said that, I will add that I believe, based on your communication of your thoughts, @Coriolis that you are more like him than anyone else I've spoken with and I've taken your words in this thread very seriously and have been remembering your advice when speaking to him. About the rudeness, I would never call him rude. He is matter of fact, but he is not really rude, at least I don't see him as rude. Some may though.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  9. #39
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    My INTJ decided to teach me the ways of his kind.

    Lesson #1: Never show your cards.
    Lesson #2: Unless showing your cards is a part of your plan to not show your cards.
    Lesson #3: So then show your cards.

    Also, even if at this point in your relationship you think you know where your walls are, it's because the INTJ is letting you and if your security access card needs to be revoked it can and will be at any time sans warning.

    Also, I know the INTP ilk and there is nothing subtle about what any of you guys do ever. It's not a bad thing. But it is a thing.
    Well, im pretty good at seeing the cards that people are trying not to show(and i know that INTJs try not to show their cards most the time, but i would suspect that they show their cards more in a romantic relationship), especially if i know the person. Also im really good at not letting the other person know that i have seen his cards(this is where the real power comes from).

    What comes to being subtle, i can do that just fine, its just that sometimes i dont care to do that and the subtle stuff can be hidden behind something blunt. Maybe this didnt apply to me when i was 16.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #40
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If you consider "bitch" an objective designation, like "liar" then this would be correct. I consider it subjective, however, hence in the realm of Fi, supported of course by those Te evaluations.
    Bitch means a woman who acts like a female dog in heat. There is no value judgment in the definition, but the value judgment is what you associate with the term. Its funny that you just said that the Fi isnt in such a big role, but now you showed that you are automatically putting a value judgment on a objective term

    You are acting just the way my intention was for using the term bitch originally. The reason why i thought about using the term bitch was to say objectively that she is acting like a female dog in heat(which is at least almost true, enough to be held as objective truth for Te), but also brings negative association with the term. And because it can be seen as objectively truth(Te), the negative association can be more easily be accepted as true aswell. And if he will associate the reasons for all this(/put the blame) on her, it will ease his pain more because the bitch is whos fault it is, not his(at least so much or completely his fault).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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