[INTJ] Why do people hate INTJs?

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

INTPC is a silly place. Also, that audio spam thing is fucking irritating, and it still hasn't gone away.

 

[Stigmata]

INTPC is a silly place. Also, that audio spam thing is fucking irritating, and it still hasn't gone away.

It would annoy me a bit more if they didn't play all the greatest hits of the golden age of pop music. My biggest deterrent from there these days is that there's absolutely no traffic; it's just the same 5 posters engaging in a daily incestuous little circle jerk about how alone they are in a world filled with mouth-breathing sensors. If I wanted to listen to that everyday I'd just rewatch Clerks more times than I already have.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It would annoy me a bit more if they didn't play all the greatest hits of the golden age of pop music. My biggest deterrent from there these days is that there's absolutely no traffic; it's just the same 5 posters engaging in a daily incestuous little circle jerk about how alone they are in a world filled with mouth-breathing sensors. If I wanted to listen to that everyday I'd just rewatch Clerks more times than I already have.

You know what the funniest thing is? I'm not even supposed to be here today.

 

[Stigmata]

You know what the funniest thing is? I'm not even supposed to be here today.

Funny enough, I never realized this before but this quote pretty much summarizes most of the content on INTPc.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Yes..... it's ok at first, but it gets old eventually. I have my rage issues too, for certain, but I'd prefer not to fixate on that excessively. It was cute in high school.... past that, though? It's time to work on moving on.

 

[SensEye]

INTPC is a silly place. Also, that audio spam thing is fucking irritating, and it still hasn't gone away.

Just to be clear, that's Haight's fault. The mods there don't have the authority to remove the spam and their requests for assitance have been ignored. It's super annoying though, hence my presence here for the time being. I still pop in there, but the spam factor every time I open a thread makes me very choosey at the moment about which ones I bother with.

I still prefer INTPc over this place overall, but the forums serve different purposes. INTPc is best suited to INTPs and as such, the subject matter will clearly have less variety. OTOH, there's no myriad of threads of nonsensical spiritual mumbo jumbo to contend with. So you take the updside with the down.

 

[Coriolis]

I think that you have made a point that I have considered: That Ni needs to be guided towards positive aspects of life. (Otherwise the results can be seen as transgressions, as the website you've mentioned suggests)

In this experience I can see how Ni can be led astray. (Very astray) But I can also see the amount of change and positivity it can bring to the world when in a positive state of mind. (I have made a 180)

I love both Se and Ni for very different reasons. I think they are equal, just in different abilities.

Someone with Se can be stuck in a rut and you may never see them change. Which causes inertia.

On the other hand Se causes action if it's going in the right direction.

It just depends on how the person's outlook is.

Ni and Se are both perceiving functions. They won't ever really "do" anything unless paired with judging functions, which obviously they are since functions don't operate in a vacuum. It is then someone's Je/Ji functions that provide this direction, guide Ni in positive directions, kick Se out of a rut, etc.

 

[Evo]

Ni and Se are both perceiving functions. They won't ever really "do" anything unless paired with judging functions, which obviously they are since functions don't operate in a vacuum. It is then someone's Je/Ji functions that provide this direction, guide Ni in positive directions, kick Se out of a rut, etc.

Yes, I believe the judgement function can be the initial step of providing the direction. However I think that some perception functions can sort of get carried away with patterns.

Example: When someone notices that their friend is telling a story, that they've told over and over beforehand.

I would think that's just perception saying "this person keeps telling this story again and again."

I think that's how Ni can get carried away with patterns...So it can almost become "Was it the chicken before the egg?" kind of dilema.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to understand the boundaries betweeen the functions better.

 

[Synarch]

They seem to be viewed as narcissistic elitists by many people of other types (or perhaps even by some within their own type), and I'm wondering how accurate these perceptions really may be, or why people actually develop them to begin with.

I like a lot of them. Others I like, but they provoke uncomfortable feelings. Some of are really awkward and I feel a mixture of embarrassment for them, mixed with envy.

 

[Coriolis]

Yes, I believe the judgement function can be the initial step of providing the direction. However I think that some perception functions can sort of get carried away with patterns.

Example: When someone notices that their friend is telling a story, that they've told over and over beforehand.

I would think that's just perception saying "this person keeps telling this story again and again."

I think that's how Ni can get carried away with patterns...So it can almost become "Was it the chicken before the egg?" kind of dilema.Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to understand the boundaries betweeen the functions better.

That is hard to do, because they are always working together. It is almost like trying to pick apart the ingredients of a cake. Noticing that your friend has told a certain story before requires you to make a comparison. Was it really the same, or were there any differences? Are these significant enough to keep you from considering the story the same? All of this involves judgement. When it seems that perception is getting carried away, it is less the fault of the perceiving function as sloppy or erroneous application of the judgement function. Our judgement refuses to consider all available information, or weights it inappropriately, or evaluates it using the wrong standards. The antidote to Ni conspiracy theories, for instance, is objective analysis by Te.

 

[Evo]

That is hard to do, because they are always working together. It is almost like trying to pick apart the ingredients of a cake. Noticing that your friend has told a certain story before requires you to make a comparison. Was it really the same, or were there any differences? Are these significant enough to keep you from considering the story the same? All of this involves judgement. When it seems that perception is getting carried away, it is less the fault of the perceiving function as sloppy or erroneous application of the judgement function. Our judgement refuses to consider all available information, or weights it inappropriately, or evaluates it using the wrong standards. The antidote to Ni conspiracy theories, for instance, is objective analysis by Te.

Ok, so then I guess I am not understanding something.

Quick version: My idea about type pretty much rests on the idea that Step 1. someone grows up and incorporates their dominant function into thier life. Then Step 2. to even this dominant function out they should integrate thier auxillary.

And of course there's step 3 & 4 that continue, but a lot of people struggle at step 2 and never get to the other steps.

A lot of people meaning extraverts.

intorverts have an advantage because they're forced to use thier auxillary in the extraverted world that we live in.

So this quick Te judgement is relating to ENTJ's...

Not INTJ's in my opinion.

I would think that an introverts probelm would come from using their dominant function too much as well though just like the rest of us, right? (if not, then what?)

That being said...

I think that most INTJ's use their auxillary pretty well....

So I guess what I am still not understanding is why people hate INTJ's...lol

It either should be from them not integrating thier auxillary...or them not accepting or integrating their inferior.

 

[Coriolis]

That being said...

I think that most INTJ's use their auxillary pretty well....

So I guess what I am still not understanding is why people hate INTJ's...lol

It either should be from them not integrating thier auxillary...or them not accepting or integrating their inferior.

My function explanation wasn't meant to answer the highlighted. To take a stab at doing so based on the above: most INTJs do use aux Te rather well, but other people often don't appreciate its being applied to them, however correctly, justifiably, or productively.

 

[Evo]

My function explanation wasn't meant to answer the highlighted. To take a stab at doing so based on the above: most INTJs do use aux Te rather well, but other people often don't appreciate its being applied to them, however correctly, justifiably, or productively.

Yea, I am trying to link two things together. And in doing that jumping all over. I am sorry for that.

I just think the idea of someone making a hasty judgement...should not be attributed to INTJ's.

I would think that hasty judgement is usually made by an ENTJ.

Also I would think that an INTJ wouldn't even show their judgements unless provoked. Right?

 

[Coriolis]

Yea, I am trying to link two things together. And in doing that jumping all over. I am sorry for that.

I just think the idea of someone making a hasty judgement...should not be attributed to INTJ's.

I would think that hasty judgement is usually made by an ENTJ.

Also I would think that an INTJ wouldn't even show their judgements unless provoked. Right?

To generalize perhaps too much, we tend not to make hasty judgements. I do think we keep them to ourselves unless we see something to be gained by expressing them. That being said, I think we see the need to express them more often than others would like. We will do so if the object of judgement is negatively affecting us, but we also often do it out of an honest desire to help. We think we see a better way for someone to do something, or an avoidable mistake they are about to make. People don't always appreciate the "help".

 

[Evo]

To generalize perhaps too much, we tend not to make hasty judgements. I do think we keep them to ourselves unless we see something to be gained by expressing them. That being said, I think we see the need to express them more often than others would like. We will do so if the object of judgement is negatively affecting us, but we also often do it out of an honest desire to help. We think we see a better way for someone to do something, or an avoidable mistake they are about to make. People don't always appreciate the "help".

Yea that's what I thought.

I guess I just don't find that a good enough reason to think someone's narcissitic. Because if they're right...they're right.

And I wouldn't think that INTJ's were giving unsolicited advice... Why would an introvert waste their time like that.

I guess maybe what a problem could be is that they don't explain thier Ni well enough. Meaning if they said "This is the wrong way to do it, there's a better way" to someone.

I could see that someone taking that as an attack. And then they're not going to consider if the INTJ is going to provide the more efficient way of doing it or not.

I think then I could see why people could initially see them as narcissitic in a general sense.

***

Either way, it doesn't explain [MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION] 's POV about that stormfront website or why the stereotypical INTJ is portrayed as believing in conspiricy theories.

I can understand why an ENTJ would fit that stereotype...but not an INTJ

Cause I think those opinions are usually based off of not getting enough data before making hasty judgements combined with inf. Fi <-- That sounds like excessive use of Te and not enough use of a perception function....

 

[Evo]

To generalize perhaps too much, we tend not to make hasty judgements. I do think we keep them to ourselves unless we see something to be gained by expressing them. That being said, I think we see the need to express them more often than others would like. We will do so if the object of judgement is negatively affecting us, but we also often do it out of an honest desire to help. We think we see a better way for someone to do something, or an avoidable mistake they are about to make. People don't always appreciate the "help".

Yea that's what I thought.

I guess I just don't find that a good enough reason to think someone's narcissitic. Because if they're right...they're right.

And I wouldn't think that INTJ's were giving unsolicited advice... Why would an introvert waste their time like that.

I guess maybe what a problem could be is that they don't explain thier Ni well enough. Meaning if they said "This is the wrong way to do it, there's a better way" to someone.

I could see that someone taking that as an attack. And then they're not going to consider if the INTJ is going to provide the more efficient way of doing it or not.

I think then I could see why people could initially see them as narcissitic in a general sense.

***

Either way, it doesn't explain [MENTION=15886]superunknown[/MENTION] 's POV about that stormfront website or why the stereotypical INTJ is portrayed as believing in conspiricy theories.

I can understand why an ENTJ would fit that stereotype...but not an INTJ

Cause I think those opinions are usually based off of not getting enough data before making hasty judgements combined with inf. Fi <-- That sounds like excessive use of Te and not enough use of a perception function....

 

[Society]

You don't see me do it here for the reason I explained above:

That request only comes into play when a decision needs to be made, and we don't have the time or resources to gather the evidence it would take to provide an ironclad justification.

well yes, but isn't that sort of innate to those circumstances regardless of function or personality type? if you don't have the time to do something then there is no choice involved in not taking that time... it's like, not drinking coffee when your out of coffee, it doesn't tell me anything about your attitude towards coffee, it just tells me that... your out of coffee.

i'll also add that in such situations, i am probably a lot worst on expecting people to follow on ideas and notions without justifications, because while you describe doin it reactively to the situations, if i am honest with myself i think i have to admit that looking at my life in a wide lense, i am more likely to do it proactively and create situations of urgency in the first place.

 

[WALMART]

It's supes who wants everyone else to prove the negative, that INTJs aren't Nazi-loving conspiracy junkies. We may be looking at some kind of Buddhist Adolph on a recruitment drive. Presumably the actual Nazi-loving conspiracists will be outing themselves by PM and rep.

Naraka, the capital of New Brazil, awaits.

Hehe.

There is no telling what a set of bars laid against my march could produce.

 

[Coriolis]

well yes, but isn't that sort of innate to those circumstances regardless of function or personality type? if you don't have the time to do something then there is no choice involved in not taking that time... it's like, not drinking coffee when your out of coffee, it doesn't tell me anything about your attitude towards coffee, it just tells me that... your out of coffee.

i'll also add that in such situations, i am probably a lot worst on expecting people to follow on ideas and notions without justifications, because while you describe doin it reactively to the situations, if i am honest with myself i think i have to admit that looking at my life in a wide lense, i am more likely to do it proactively and create situations of urgency in the first place.

Having to react to situations where there isn't time for further fact-gathering certainly happens to all types. I encounter all sorts of reactions from other types, though, that aren't what I usually do. There are people who will keep trying to gather information, almost not admitting that there is no time. Others will try to figure out how to defer the decision - often not possible. Others will resort to some existing procedure, often not suitable. Others will try to pull some decision out of a hat. This last on the surface might look no different from what I do; the difference is that I have a much higher certainty that my solution will work. I will therefore tell all of them: just trust me on this -- it will work. I do react to non-urgent situations this way, too, but will usually take the time to justify my approach to others when there is time, so they feel more confidence in it, too.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Having to react to situations where there isn't time for further fact-gathering certainly happens to all types. I encounter all sorts of reactions from other types, though, that aren't what I usually do. There are people who will keep trying to gather information, almost not admitting that there is no time. Others will try to figure out how to defer the decision - often not possible. Others will resort to some existing procedure, often not suitable. Others will try to pull some decision out of a hat. This last on the surface might look no different from what I do; the difference is that I have a much higher certainty that my solution will work. I will therefore tell all of them: just trust me on this -- it will work. I do react to non-urgent situations this way, too, but will usually take the time to justify my approach to others when there is time, so they feel more confidence in it, too.

This sounds the most like me. So I can see how a more intuitive approach might have it's advantages.

The tricky thing is that some people will tell me to trust them on something, and they actually can't be trusted, but then, they leave me holding the bag with the justification that "well, you didn't have to listen to me. You were free to make a choice." That kind of thing is annoying, and is the reason why I have a hard time innately trusting people in those kinds of situations. I'm not sure what specific type I would associate with that, other than the fact that I find that behavior annoying.