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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #961
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post
    Oh, I think you know.
    If I did, I would not have asked.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  2. #962
    Senior Member Array Santosha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If I did, I would not have asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What the OP describes is more like pigeonholing, as someone mentioned. It focuses on the utility or contribution of a person, not their individuality or humanity as Nicodemus neatly observed.
    It was just a snarky comment, really. More of a personal joke. I don't care to get into how Ni infers the core from an se surface manifestation. In personal experience, I've known intj to be wrong a time or two.


    I'd take it over the absurd rabbit-hole ni can fall down, losing all reference to the outside in a deepening and intensification of the 'truth'. Where nothing is any longer what it appears, and everything has some hidden meaning being obscured.

    Man suffers only because he takes seriously what the gods made for fun - Watts

  3. #963
    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Default Why do people hate INTJs?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Fi possesses a logic you are not wired to comprehend. It is as sound and rational as Ti. It takes Fi types longer in life (generally) to be able to express that incisive precision with elegance, but that does not mean it is not there.
    I'm not saying it isn't rational, just that it is fundamentally absent logic thanks to Fi, which deals explicitly in arbitrary binary yes/no value judgement affirmations that are completely subjective, based on feels, and have no place in the scientific method. Ti makes similar binary decisions which are also subjective, but they are based on isomorphisms: whether or not one cataloged thing is like another cataloged thing. The error there can be in cataloging the wrong thing, but the process is logically sound.
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  4. #964
    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Default Why do people hate INTJs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    You are speaking ill of an entire group, without making any declarations or even implying that this doesn't apply to everyone. Further, you speak of an entire group in a very harsh light, when there is no personality grouping that even comes close to that level of dysfunction or harm (unless we're speaking of personality disorders, which we are not), you need to be very clear that it isn't everyone and further clear it only speaks to a very small group of individuals in your experiences.

    So yes, it is hate speech, and your generalizations are not only wrong, but harmful and unwanted.
    You sound like an SJW. Generalizations by definition account for a minority factor otherwise they would be absolutes, but my interest is on the majority. When I shovel snow I don't consider the beauty of each snow flake, and I'm not going to buy the "rights" to be efficiently honest in one hand by coddling with the other.

    I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know if you know what I mean. And I know INTJs, inside and out. They don't appreciate coddling anyway, and I don't appreciate people trying to steamroll over the first amendment and censor things they don't like by trying to shoe horn it into "hate speech."

  5. #965
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post

    I'm curious. Have you ever found those who are ok with you reverting back to a more natural tendancy after some time?
    Of course. I don't do this all the time or even often. I probably do it less with my ENFJ, he knows what I mean more than anyone else.

    I ask because sometimes I can adjust to someones way of doing things after I learn through experience that they mean no harm. If I an get past that sort of thing with a person I can usually get super close with them. Sometimes though, that can't happen and an altered behavior is an absolute must. Either way I always wondered on the other end if you notice patterns with being able to let the new behavior drop, not include it in the first place for everyone? Or is it totally unpredictable and you have to go by word of mouth?
    I think it's unpredictable. If I'm getting close with someone, I'm going to do the altered behavior thing less, not more.

    It's also very interesting that you can take on a behavior like this so readily. It's very difficult for me to take on a unnatural behavior unless my environment absolutely demands it (and even then it's sometimes impossible). I don't think it'd be possible for me to be close with anyone that would require to twist like that all the time.
    Oh, I don't do it readily. This was not easy for me. I don't especially like doing it and there are times I choose to say nothing because it seems easier than explaining why I said - why did you put the coffee pot there? But when I do speak to people who either won't or can't hear what I say as it is said and as it is meant - I modify.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  6. #966
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
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    Here's a perfect example of what I was saying above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huxley3112 View Post

    Oh, I think you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If I did, I would not have asked.
    She would not have asked if she knew. Why is it impossible to take a question or a comment at face value? Why did you put the coffee pot there? It's the same thing, it's not the INTJ that had the problem, it's whatever the other person hears or thinks they hear. Or some kind of issue with Ni, in this case, and INTJ's being wrong.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  7. #967
    alchemist Array Legion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIjade View Post
    Hey, ya gonna use this post as lyrics for your new song?
    While I intend to write many songs, I doubt that this will be one of them. Oh, how I do enjoy writing in rhymes, though.

    I'll also give a more serious response - that while I don't hate INTJs as a group or anything silly like that, there have been several male INTJs I have met that use their intelligence in ways that are certainly annoying, if not destructive. Like... being condescending towards people, and a sort of insensitive real life trolling. The female INTJs I know tend to keep more to themselves and use their intelligence responsibly. I'm not trying to generalise, that's just what I've observed.

  8. #968
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    One of my training officers in the military used to ask questions like this, and given the context, nearly everyone assumed it was a command. I used to answer the question with an explanation, but also offer to change things if he wanted. "I put the recruiting flyers here because of X, Y, and Z. Do you want me to move them, sir?" The answer was always, "No, no - fine where they are." I was one of the few on good terms with him.
    And this is how Ji types learn they can sell a Je type anything with good enough rationalization(s), and based on subjectivity paraded as objectivity. It took time for me to learn that Je types wanted an explanation rather than a justification, and that there's an expectation of negotiation further involved to see what idea proves more objectively sound. Since Ji can more clearly see the long-term ramifications of any particular decision, I can see with a high level of probability what I need to say to convince you of a short-term outcome. Sometimes the answers can even be (imo) plain stupid.

    In the case of the coffee pot, an answer to that question should simply be another question: "Why does it matter where the coffee pot is?" This question would address the underlying assumptions to the initial questioning on why it has been placed where it has been placed. Because honestly -- and I get that sometimes a question is just a question framed purely for the purposes of understanding -- 90% of the time it's not. So why pretend that it is? The audience to the question has the capability to extrapolate beyond the question and see a gradation of judgement in that. I can read that there's more to the question than the purpose of understanding, so this is why it is grating. And, who cares if the coffee pot is now located 90cm to the left of where it usually is? (Trust me, I know who cares; it's a rhetorical question more than anything.) Other types do not think in a "This is the best way for this" format. They won't enter into negotiation because they're not wired to do think that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    She would not have asked if she knew. Why is it impossible to take a question or a comment at face value? Why did you put the coffee pot there? It's the same thing, it's not the INTJ that had the problem, it's whatever the other person hears or thinks they hear. Or some kind of issue with Ni, in this case, and INTJ's being wrong.
    Well, probably this is better stated, "She would not have asked if she knew with certainty." It's obsequious to say that there weren't possibilities raised that were already on her mind; it's not flat-out devoid of judgement. I agree it's better to ask the question in this circumstance since as a human matter there are far more variables and moving parts involved, and text communications alone can be fraught with misunderstandings.

    But in the case of the coffee pot? I realize controlling the outer environment brings Je an inner peace. But it's not all about the Je person.

    eta: I can already hear the objections to "with certainty". Naturally, nothing is fully known or certain.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #969
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    But in the case of the coffee pot? I realize controlling the outer environment brings Je an inner peace. But it's not all about the Je person.
    If it was, I wouldn't be taking the time to frame it differently. Somehow that effort often gets lost in the translation as well.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  10. #970
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    And this is how Ji types learn they can sell a Je type anything with good enough rationalization(s), and based on subjectivity paraded as objectivity. It took time for me to learn that Je types wanted an explanation rather than a justification, and that there's an expectation of negotiation further involved to see what idea proves more objectively sound. Since Ji can more clearly see the long-term ramifications of any particular decision, I can see with a high level of probability what I need to say to convince you of a short-term outcome. Sometimes the answers can even be (imo) plain stupid.

    In the case of the coffee pot, an answer to that question should simply be another question: "Why does it matter where the coffee pot is?" This question would address the underlying assumptions to the initial questioning on why it has been placed where it has been placed. Because honestly -- and I get that sometimes a question is just a question framed purely for the purposes of understanding -- 90% of the time it's not. So why pretend that it is? The audience to the question has the capability to extrapolate beyond the question and see a gradation of judgement in that. I can read that there's more to the question than the purpose of understanding, so this is why it is grating. And, who cares if the coffee pot is now located 90cm to the left of where it usually is? (Trust me, I know who cares; it's a rhetorical question more than anything.) Other types do not think in a "This is the best way for this" format. They won't enter into negotiation because they're not wired to do think that way.




    Well, probably this is better stated, "She would not have asked if she knew with certainty." It's obsequious to say that there weren't possibilities raised that were already on her mind; it's not flat-out devoid of judgement. I agree it's better to ask the question in this circumstance since as a human matter there are far more variables and moving parts involved, and text communications alone can be fraught with misunderstandings.

    But in the case of the coffee pot? I realize controlling the outer environment brings Je an inner peace. But it's not all about the Je person.

    eta: I can already hear the objections to "with certainty". Naturally, nothing is fully known or certain.
    Lmao...isn't subjectivity objectivity for Je. Once you learn subjectivity its easy to use it as objectivity. It's a mere rewording of things.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

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