User Tag List

First 40808889909192100 Last

Results 891 to 900 of 1035

  1. #891
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    15,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    I don't know who this is, so I can't really answer your question. Still new here and I haven't had a great deal of time to interact with said poster.
    I am the member who wrote this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You are confusing being private with being passive. INTJs activeness is seen in our actions much moreso than in our words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    I'm not confused, this is my personal viewpoint. I don't see INTJs as more aggressive than anyone else in society, if anything they are one of the least aggressive types. I think only the FPs trail behind us. (Almost annoyingly passive).
    Now you are taking aggression as the opposite of passivity. The expression "passive-aggressive" notwithstanding, the opposite of passive is active. INTJs are active, though that activity is often not readily apparent for (at least) 3 reasons. (1) Our actions are focused, meaning that if you don't see us engaged in one of our ongoing projects or something we consider important, we certainly will look tuned out or idle. (2) Our actions are efficient, meaning you won't see us running around in a flurry of activity, like the proverbial chicken with its head cut off. Our actions often serve to set things in motion that can proceed without our own direct intervention. We then relax until it is necessary to take the next step. (3) We are often stealthy about what we are doing, so even when it is important and ongoing, it might not look like we are doing much at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    The only time I feel the need to become passionate about a subject is when I see people spreading a false truth. Such as the stereotypes people perpetuate about INTJs. Including the INTJs themselves. Maybe the get some sort of gratification or a sense of belonging out of it, but I am really sick and tired of hearing it.

    We're not all alike. Some of us are aggressive, some of us are passive. In real life, we're fairly innocuous people and whether you want to agree with this or not, we come off as passive and calm to others.

    When I was a child my teacher used to stick me next to the hyperactive kids because she said I had a calming effect on them. I've had many people tell me that I have a placid composure.
    Correcting someone on Beatles trivia, as @uumlau mentioned as an example, seems more INTP-like. Sure, I enjoy a good discussion and will take someone to task if I think they are being factually or logically incorrect. My real passion, however, is focused on getting things done, on accomplishing things that are important to me. Yes, you might see me arguing with someone over the best way to do something, but often I simply step in and do it. Again, action: not passivity, or aggression, or even an argument over trivia. When observing INTJs, perception is quite often NOT reality.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #892
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2014
    MBTI
    N/A
    Socionics
    EIE Ni
    Posts
    3,388

    Default

    For example, today we live in a type 9 INFJ society. The values of the mainstream, that are trendy and most accepted, desired, valued...are those you'd expect somebody with that typing to have. So, there isn't anything original about being an NF; we run the joint. The irony.

    Of course, you don't have to look far into the past to find a time where it was different.

    I feel we're near the end of a cycle where E9 values control our culture, and that they'll soon be replaced by those of a more confronting type, probably E6 (or E8 if we get President Trump ).

  3. #893
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    8,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    No one can. Enneagram is much tougher than MBTI, that way.

    If you don't figure it out yourself, and get the "Oh, shit! I do that over and over without thinking about it," reaction, it isn't your type. Only you can realize that insight about yourself.

    I've studiously avoided conflict all my life, ever since I was a kid. I've never been in a fight. (Well, roughhousing with my brother doesn't count!) I obey stupid rules just so people don't bother me about obeying them. I look for the least confrontational solutions to my problems.

    Those kinds of insights aren't obvious to an INTJ who has mastered many topics and looks to all the world like some sort of 5w6. The thing is, I don't master things out of fear or to compensate for a weakness, but because it's what I do. It was a huge source of confusion until I realized that being an INTJ is what I consciously do, how I think, while the Enneagram is what I unconsciously do - how I react. I react like a type 9, without thinking hard about it at all. It's automatic.
    In the beginning, I just went with an enneagram 5 because....that's what seemed most logical and that's what a lot of INTJ's are. I also think enneagram tends to show personality in the worst light and 8's sound horrible. When I figured out more about 8's I knew that's what I was because that is what I react like and that is what I think like and I'm not afraid of it. Maybe that in itself is part of being an 8.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes uumlau liked this post

  4. #894
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Correcting someone on Beatles trivia, as uumlau mentioned as an example, seems more INTP-like.
    I was actually thinking of a more ISTJ-ish type 5. INTJ 5 mastery tends to focus on more abstract pursuits.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #895
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTJ None
    Posts
    69

    Default

    The main thing I liked about this book is that its more anecdotal style helped me figure out the underlying core of Enneagram, namely that it is about weaknesses, about coping mechanisms. The "personalities" of the types are the coping mechanisms by which people of the type tend to deal with their key psychological weakness. If you figure out the weakness or coping mechanism, you know your Enneagram type, even if the personality doesn't match exactly. (The personality descriptions get a lot of "cruft" that combine MBTI personality types together and hide the fact that other MBTI types could have that Enneagram type. For instance, type 5 reads like a combination of INTJ and INTP, but hides the fact that INFP or ISTJ are also quite likely, and the type 9 descriptions read like INFP/ISFP/ISFJ emo crap that would seem to indicate that an INTJ could never possibly be a 9 - but 9 is the only type that makes sense to me.)
    Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out in my spare time.

  6. #896
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTJ None
    Posts
    69

    Default

    I read somewhere - I can't remember where - that your true Enneatype is likely to be the one you find most uncomfortable, even have the most contempt for. You shouldn't be flattered by what you see. It is because the system delves into such confronting aspects of our psyche that I feel it's very difficult to Enneatype somebody you don't know well...and that it's next to impossible to do online, where people for the most part show you an idealised version of themselves.
    Interesting. That's how I felt when I read the Myers Briggs description for INTJ. The 5w4 one certainly made me uncomfortable. I'll have to look more into this to really understand how this whole thing works. Sometimes I think these online tests are just too vague and one dimensional to really type anyone.

  7. #897
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTJ None
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Now you are taking aggression as the opposite of passivity.
    They are antonyms.

    (1) Our actions are focused, meaning that if you don't see us engaged in one of our ongoing projects or something we consider important, we certainly will look tuned out or idle.
    My point is that we appear passive to the outside world, therefore innocuous. Which leads me to become confused as to why anyone would dislike us instinctively. It would take someone time to get to know us and to develop some type of feeling either way. My personal thought is that we have a neutral expression and most people perceive this as a negative thing rather than a neutral thing. Someone who appears perky and upbeat is more likely to be perceived as friendly and warm.

  8. #898
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTJ None
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Correcting someone on Beatles trivia, as @uumlau mentioned as an example, seems more INTP-like. Sure, I enjoy a good discussion and will take someone to task if I think they are being factually or logically incorrect. My real passion, however, is focused on getting things done, on accomplishing things that are important to me. Yes, you might see me arguing with someone over the best way to do something, but often I simply step in and do it. Again, action: not passivity, or aggression, or even an argument over trivia. When observing INTJs, perception is quite often NOT reality.
    I don't really understand this at all.

    I never "accomplish tasks" because I have very little to accomplish. I work in retail. When I'm not in retail I am exploring avenues of interest to myself and relaxing. My job takes a lot of energy out of me, so by the time I actually get home I literally need to lie down and veg out.

    Maybe it would be different if I had energy...but I sincerely doubt it. As a child, I was a lazy daydreamer and spent most of my time "hanging out." My mom had to strike the fear of god into me, figuratively speaking, to get me to do anything. I was lazy, although I could focus is I had a task that needed to be done. It doesn't change the fact that my main state of mind was a very passive existence. I'm assertive in other ways though, never let anyone push me around growing up. At work, if I see a customer leave a basket or a product in the middle of the store I'll ask them to put it back (politely of course).

    Maybe it's a 5 thing..I don't know. I've never felt an incentive to do anything, let alone accomplish anything. Now...I do have goals in my life, I want to move to NYC and that means I need to save up money. I made a goal for myself to purchase a cruise, I planned this entire thing out. Is it really an accomplishment though?

    Other than that I don't really know what else to do with myself or my life. I suppose I want to go back and get my master's and Phd, I want to explore avenues of interest. (History, archaeology, music archiving, history, vocal performance.).

    Perhaps you could argue that what I do everyday is a goal. I spend large amounts of time researching music, history, and all sorts of subjects that intrigue me, but other than that...there's not really much else.

  9. #899
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    15,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    They are antonyms.
    I'm not sure which dictionary gave you that misconception. I just checked half a dozen, in print and online, and all list "active" as an antonym of passive, usually first in the list; and none list "aggressive". Your entire line of reasoning thus relies on the misuse of a word.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    My point is that we appear passive to the outside world, therefore innocuous. Which leads me to become confused as to why anyone would dislike us instinctively. It would take someone time to get to know us and to develop some type of feeling either way. My personal thought is that we have a neutral expression and most people perceive this as a negative thing rather than a neutral thing. Someone who appears perky and upbeat is more likely to be perceived as friendly and warm.
    That's not what you wrote initially, though. You wrote that we in fact were passive. I don't argue that we often appear so, but as I specified earlier, reality is often quite distinct from appearance. If anything, people probably dislike us on first encounter because we do not immediately jump into the circle jerk that is common idle chatter and smalltalk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    I don't really understand this at all.

    I never "accomplish tasks" because I have very little to accomplish. I work in retail. When I'm not in retail I am exploring avenues of interest to myself and relaxing. My job takes a lot of energy out of me, so by the time I actually get home I literally need to lie down and veg out.

    Maybe it would be different if I had energy...but I sincerely doubt it. As a child, I was a lazy daydreamer and spent most of my time "hanging out." My mom had to strike the fear of god into me, figuratively speaking, to get me to do anything. I was lazy, although I could focus is I had a task that needed to be done. It doesn't change the fact that my main state of mind was a very passive existence. I'm assertive in other ways though, never let anyone push me around growing up. At work, if I see a customer leave a basket or a product in the middle of the store I'll ask them to put it back (politely of course).

    Maybe it's a 5 thing..I don't know. I've never felt an incentive to do anything, let alone accomplish anything. Now...I do have goals in my life, I want to move to NYC and that means I need to save up money. I made a goal for myself to purchase a cruise, I planned this entire thing out. Is it really an accomplishment though?
    We seem to be very different then in this respect, even though I see we both list ourselves as 5. My parents only had to get after me to do dumb little chores around the house, like hang my coat in the closet after school, or put out a new box of tissues if I used the last one. Oh, and go to bed at what they thought was a "reasonable time". As far back as I can remember, I have been driven to reach goals - often goals for myself, like doing well on a school project, or learning a new piece of music, or learning a new skill. As I got older, goals expanded to include others. Anything from making a series of handmade Christmas gifts, to organizing a surprise anniversary party for my parents, to getting a student machine shop funded and set up when I was in grad school. Now my goals involve primarily professional and career activities and volunteer activities, as well as personal learning. Seeing my plans and ideas become reality provides a thrill and sense of satisfaction like little else.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #900
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Socionics
    INTJ None
    Posts
    69

    Default

    I'm not sure which dictionary gave you that misconception. I just checked half a dozen, in print and online, and all list "active" as an antonym of passive, usually first in the list; and none list "aggressive". Your entire line of reasoning thus relies on the misuse of a word.
    Why are we arguing over this? Kind of dumb thing to argue about...Don't you think? I feel like we're bickering just for the sake of bickering. Who cares??

    That's not what you wrote initially, though. You wrote that we in fact were passive. I don't argue that we often appear so, but as I specified earlier, reality is often quite distinct from appearance. If anything, people probably dislike us on first encounter because we do not immediately jump into the circle jerk that is common idle chatter and smalltalk.
    Again, who cares? I'm not arguing about this anymore because we've clearly lost sight of the argument and we're falling into pointless bickering. This argument could literally go on forever.

    We seem to be very different then in this respect, even though I see we both list ourselves as 5. My parents only had to get after me to do dumb little chores around the house, like hang my coat in the closet after school, or put out a new box of tissues if I used the last one. Oh, and go to bed at what they thought was a "reasonable time".
    I never really did chores as a kid, the only chore I had was do my homework and don' fail school.

    As far back as I can remember, I have been driven to reach goals - often goals for myself, like doing well on a school project, or learning a new piece of music, or learning a new skill.
    I certainly did my best on school projects, but only because I was interested in the subject or because I enjoyed the project. I played music growing up, so to me this wasn't even work. it was just recreation. Didn't really consider it a "goal."

    As I got older, goals expanded to include others. Anything from making a series of handmade Christmas gifts, to organizing a surprise anniversary party for my parents, to getting a student machine shop funded and set up when I was in grad school. Now my goals involve primarily professional and career activities and volunteer activities, as well as personal learning. Seeing my plans and ideas become reality provides a thrill and sense of satisfaction like little else.
    Interesting, I don't really relate to this at all. Maybe it's a nature v nurture thing. I do have goals for myself, but I don't think this is the same thing.

Similar Threads

  1. Why do people hate tradional thoughts and practices?
    By prplchknz in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 05-08-2014, 08:01 PM
  2. Why do people love to hate Kristen Stewart?
    By gromit in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 07:20 PM
  3. [INFP] Why do people Hate the idea of being INFP?
    By CrystalViolet in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: 05-23-2011, 10:39 PM
  4. [INTJ] Why do people seem to dislike INTJs?
    By RenaiReborn in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 06-03-2009, 08:36 AM
  5. [INTJ] Why do people Pretend to be INTJ's?
    By Dominicus Griswold in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 08-26-2008, 10:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts