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  1. #81
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riva View Post
    Blacks don't have friends. They have bros and sisters if i'm not mistaken. I've watched the wire.

  2. #82
    ロボット Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post

    After this, some people have their own values, prejudice and jump-to-conclusions problems which leads to dislike of said INTJ
    I suppose I should be more open-minded about Holocaust denial, for instance.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
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  3. #83
    Butterfly Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I suppose I should be more open-minded about Holocaust denial, for instance.
    Depends. Sometimes this kind of stuff is a hidden Ni-joke, sometimes its curiosity about your reactions and sometimes it's just to get your goat. Rarely are they serious about this stuff though, imd. The only way to tell which one it is, is to keep your calm and find out what kind of person they are. The context will tell you their sense of humor and intentions.
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  4. #84
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Depends. Sometimes this kind of stuff is a hidden Ni-joke, sometimes its curiosity about your reactions and sometimes it's just to get your goat. Rarely are they serious about this stuff though, imd. The only way to tell which one it is, is to keep your calm and find out what kind of person they are. The context will tell you their sense of humor and intentions.
    I am terrible at knowing things through context. Is there more I can go on?

    Good advice though, I appreciate it.

  5. #85
    ロボット Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Depends. Sometimes this kind of stuff is a hidden Ni-joke, sometimes its curiosity about your reactions and sometimes it's just to get your goat. Rarely are they serious about this stuff though, imd. The only way to tell which one it is, is to keep your calm and find out what kind of person they are. The context will tell you their sense of humor and intentions.
    It's hard for me to tell, because they say or do things that contradict that... but i can never know if that's just because people's beliefs don't always line up logically and make coherent sense.
    I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
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  6. #86
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Live with one, have worked with two, have dated three, and have one as a sibling. I know my way around the INTJ circuit, including the knee-jerk Fi reaction on display here anytime you try telling them that one of their systemic inabilities is (gasp!) anything less than just another sign of their superiority and awesomeness in every tangible and intangible field of everything. Maybe INTJs can squeak out a few practical tasks when they absolutely have to, but nowhere near as good as SPs...and in my experience dealing with them, they much prefer to delegate such tasks as much as possible. The bulk of the 'work' they do involves endless research into a project, and finding people to help them with it. Attempting to dive in themselves and complete something in a timely fashion typically results in unexpected problems along the way, which infuriates them, and more often than not causes them to give up on the task completely (until they can find someone to do it for them), or just get it to a half-ass 'workable' level of completion. INTJs have remarkable patience in areas of no resistance, but in the presence of a sabotaging reality they just can't deal with it, and shut down-- forever avoiding such tasks in the future, which stunts their ability to problem solve mechanical reality.
    I think you've been surrounded by underdeveloped INTJ's, or just are focusing on the negative. They can be this way when they are in a less functional stage, but as they mature and learn to use all their functions well they come into the positive aspects of their type. And it's possible some of them are mistyped, but I think the bolded shows inferior Se. A high number of obstacles which haven't been planned for and "sabotaging reality" cause Ni dominants to be anxious and stressed. How we respond will depend on the development level.

  7. #87
    Butterfly Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I am terrible at knowing things through context. Is there more I can go on?

    Good advice though, I appreciate it.
    I think its a TeFi vs FeTi thing

    I have the same difficulty in gauging this stuff with NTPs for instance, especially with Fe-related humor coz I'm never quite sure how...much they adhere to social etiquette and therefore, what is up for grabs humor-wise and what is considered a no-no, whereas to FJs it seems often self-evident.

    I guess for me, in this particular example, it is clear that an INTJ, unless incredibly immature and/or deluded, is not going to deny the Holocaust. That would be preposterous to Te. It's a well documented fact and no self-respecting INTJ would deny that in any serious fashion, unless he is capable and willing to back it up. Therefore, to utter such a thing to someone that does not know them very well, is proof of ulterior motive. Since INTJs rarely care for public opinion nor respect those that misinterpret who they are without first attempting to understand their pov (pesky tertiary Fi), they have no qualms trying to sell you such drivel and consider you the moron if you buy it hook, line and sinker.

    Did I mention the condescension issue?
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  8. #88
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    I think you've been surrounded by underdeveloped INTJ's, or just are focusing on the negative.
    Just focusing on the negative, as per the title of the thread's request.

  9. #89
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I think its a TeFi vs FeTi thing

    I have the same difficulty in gauging this stuff with NTPs for instance, especially with Fe-related humor coz I'm never quite sure how...much they adhere to social etiquette and therefore, what is up for grabs humor-wise and what is considered a no-no, whereas to FJs it seems often self-evident.

    I guess for me, in this particular example, it is clear that an INTJ, unless incredibly immature and/or deluded, is not going to deny the Holocaust. That would be preposterous to Te. It's a well documented fact and no self-respecting INTJ would deny that in any serious fashion, unless he is capable and willing to back it up. Therefore, to utter such a thing to someone that does not know them very well, is proof of ulterior motive. Since INTJs rarely care for public opinion nor respect those that misinterpret who they are without first attempting to understand their pov (pesky tertiary Fi), they have no qualms trying to sell you such drivel and consider you the moron if you buy it hook, line and sinker.

    Did I mention the condescension issue?
    Thanks, good points. I'll try using my intuition to figure it out. The situation you just described though I think could have still led me astray with the INTJ I was with though; I consistently thought of him as more rational and less extreme and paranoid than he actually was. Maybe I was ignoring something my intuition was telling me, or not using it in the right way. Of course my present assessment of him could be off too- I really find him hard to read. Maybe the INTJ's I encounter in the future will be less problematic...

  10. #90
    Butterfly Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Thanks, good points. I'll try using my intuition to figure it out. The situation you just described though I think could have still led me astray with the INTJ I was with though; I consistently thought of him as more rational and less extreme and paranoid than he actually was. Maybe I was ignoring something my intuition was telling me, or not using it in the right way. Of course my present assessment of him could be off too- I really find him hard to read. Maybe the INTJ's I encounter in the future will be less problematic...
    Welp, I use Fi for that. Its one of the reasons I'll reserve judgement till I've seen most of what the person is about, till ive seen him in several situations, seen several responses etc, so I can figure out what his values are, whats important to him and what he is likely to be able to laugh at and what the pain points are. And that becomes like my baseline for all my interactions with them, giving me a gauge to see what they are likely to joke about.

    I know that with NTPs, if I get a chance to do an elaborate personality map like detailed above, I'm way more capable of anticipating their jokes, identifying them as such and even join in. If I have nothing on record yet (si?) on them, it is a *lot* harder.
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