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  1. #811
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    INTJ are viewed as arrogant for many people I know.

    So unless you are part of the NT family already or, by any chance know a bit of MBTI

    or simply try to see beyond apparences, you'll have no chance to change your own mind !
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  2. #812
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Have you ever discussed this with any of the INTJs, or asked them specifically to explain their communication style, or to adjust to be a bit closer to yours? Or do you just go with it and eventually figure it out?

    I ask because only once have I ever had someone point out that my communication style was making it hard for us to communicate and interact productively. I wonder now how common this might be, and how many people think the same thing but never say anything.
    I can't remember a time I've ever asked someone to change their communication style for me, so I assume that it is my role to adapt. I have occasionally said something if I see a conflict arising between two other people to function as diplomat if I think someone is going to misunderstand or get hurt. I have had some discussion of the other person modifying communication in a relationship, but not for friendships or acquaintances, and only minimally in relationships. I can find different styles interesting, so it doesn't usually feel like a burden to adapt - except I have limited energy. Perhaps the more I adapt to others, the more alone time I need as an introvert.

    I would not say anything to my friend- she is a former mentor and in a position of much higher status than me, so I tend to feel lucky she connects with me. Although, I do know her well enough that she wouldn't want special accommodation. I haven't felt hurt or offended in many years with her, and there were only a couple of instances when she was my professor a long time ago. She always told the truth, but the problem was more of me not knowing if I had the strength to hear so much of it at once. For example, I purchased my first good instrument while studying with her, and when she found out I didn't go to the factory to personally pick it out, she was quite clear why that was a mistake and not so smart. Unfortunately the deed was done, the money spent and gone, so I could only hope for the best, and feel a ton of anxiety about it.

    Once after a number of people said they felt intimidated when she came to their performances, she was hurt by that because she said that she doesn't attend to judge or criticize. Everyone knows she is an expert and if anyone could hear their flaws, it would be her, and in some contexts she will communicate it directly, but now she is retired and these aren't her students. She isn't on a judging panel, etc. She wants to attend as people's friend for support.

    I think most people already have a lot of self doubt, and by the time they are adults they have been inundated with so much criticism - both constructive and destructive, that hearing the truth can trigger more than is reasonable in many people. This does make communication incredibly difficult, and is why people can overreact.
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  3. #813
    HAHHAHHAH! INTJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExNinjaTropPervertie View Post
    INTJ are viewed as arrogant for many people I know.

    So unless you are part of the NT family already or, by any chance know a bit of MBTI

    or simply try to see beyond apparences, you'll have no chance to change your own mind !

    One of the things that happened to me was when I was in college, I would get A LOT of people asking me for help which drained me and annoyed me, especially the ones who weren't really trying to learn but to have me do their work for them. So what I did was not put effort into helping them, and often I'd end up giving them the wrong answer, so they wouldn't want to come to me for help again...... but then they'd end up saying I'm arrogant because I was wrong, but they assumed that I thought I was right.......they also assumed I'm always right, or they wouldn't be disappointed.....when in fact I didn't even care if I was right.......but that definitely earned me a reputation of being arrogant, and it really pissed off my intp professor, who proceeded to piss me off by trying to publicly shame me and then I did some psychic stuff and then he tried to frame me for stealing his calculator........but then humiliated himself in the process and almost got fired because I was innocent. Yea interesting story, my image of arrogance was due to my frustrations with people expecting too much from me, it's not reasonable to actually expect me to give you the correct answer 100% of the time, and accuse me of being arrogant the 1st time I give them a wrong answer, and forget the fact they didn't even know in the first place and came to me for advise because they couldn't think for themselves, no it's not their responsibility to do their own work, no it's all my fault for not doing someone else's work for them properly and I'm arrogant for not doing their work. Maybe calling me arrogant is the rude awakening to the fact that intj's are human, who can make mistakes just like them, maybe they shouldn't expect so much out of a human being who is never going to be perfect(There is ALWAYS this feeling from the accuser that at some point I claimed I was perfect!, which I NEVER DO, but there is this assumption that I think I'm perfect, which I never said, it's always this person who accuses you of being arrogant, the one who is assuming the intj thinks of himself as perfect, they love to JUMP on the intj's mistake the first one they make, and it's very obvious when you make the mistake on purpose and observe). Also they can't even seem to put themselves in my shoes, it's like they didn't realize helping them is more work to me, and I didn't have time to help everyone and still complete my own work, so I just did it all out of frustration and wanting to be left alone, it's not that I wanted to be left alone with zero contact, it's that I wanted to be left alone in the schoolwork department, and I'm guessing that's the main thing they valued in me as a person, because once that was gone so were they. So yea my arrogance can be a protective mechanism in a sense I guess, but it's not exactly arrogance, it's just being mean when too much is demanded of me, when people demand more of me than they do of themselves, when they start looking at me with that look.....the look like "you're my personal jesus....", uh no I'm a human being.

    Sorry that's a wall of text. Let me summarize, I am arrogant on purpose sometimes, in order to reduce my credibility with other people(while humiliating myself as the price), so that they expect less of me, since they think I'm overrating myself once they think I'm arrogant. They start thinking oh he's not as smart as I thought, but little did they know, that's what I wanted them to think all along........in order to make my life easier, sometimes it's better to make people think less of you. Yes I have a problem if people like me too much.
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  4. #814
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fia View Post
    I've found typically with INTJs that I need to calibrate to their communication style because it doesn't tend to accommodate the established etiquette, but once you learn what they mean in their use of words (just a bit harsher, more direct than the norm), then you realize it's common for the INTJ to have very positive motives. I'm very close to an older INTJ woman who offends people with her directness, but she confided in me that she has never intended to hurt anyone in her life. There can be a purity of intention in the INTJ, but their directness can be startling to people. Cut them a little slack and you can find an awesome person to know.
    Ach. Just so. Thank you for having the nerve to say as much in public, as it is very unpopular to stand up for INTJs.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  5. #815
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    Oh for the love of God....really?

    All types have extremely irritating qualities. What on earth makes INTJs so damn special in this regard? Are you people really so blind to them? Because I assure you...they are there and other people will mock them when you are no longer present. If INTJs don't like people, it's for a reason. It's because we know how two timing and two faced people really are when others aren't looking. Friendly and amiable to someone one minute, then hateful and vicious the second they turn their back. And we know that you are doing the same to us the second we leave the room. We don't trust people, whether or not we like them has nothing to do with it. Maybe you're charming, but so what? What bearing does this have in relationships? Charm is superficial and wains the minute you dig deeper into the relationship. INTJs have very little charm, but we tend to be very loyal people and truly appreciate an act of kindness. So all of your extroverts calling INTJs boring should take a step back and understand that your charm is a useless and worthless quality. Where does it get you in the end? A nice job? perhaps. A room full of artificial acquaintances? You can keep them!

    Typically I notice that people dislike others because they reflect their own insecurities. Most INTJs tend to be very placid people and people often vent, rant, or unload their problems on INTJs. We typically see you for what you are and that kind of freaks you out because you're so used to manipulating others with your false qualities.

    You don't like us because we're quiet and boring? Well let me list the things I dislike about others:

    ESTJs: Good god...too much to be said here and I suspect you people have received the brunt of insults from most other personalities. So I'll not saying anything about this type because I imagine it's all been said. Let's give the others on here a taste of their own medicine for a goddamn change and give you guys a break.

    ESFJs: Wow. This type. I always have a problem with them and I'm never the one to initiate it. I often feel targeted by them for no reason. I have a calm composure, look easy to bully I guess. I don't really get it, but this is the only type that makes me feel downright intimidated.

    ESFPs: You guys always have so many problems going on in your life, it makes me dizzy looking at you. It's Usually because you are completely disorganized. You tend to be prone to conspiracy theories, what's up with that?? You tend to enjoy risk seeking activities, I don't even think we are on the same page in anyway whatsoever. But that's ok, vive la difference. If only you could see this about us.

    ENTJ: You guys are horrible leaders and can't see it. Anyone who tries to point this out tends to get under your skin. What's even worse is when someone tries to do the correct thing behind your back. Look...it's nothing personal. That thing needs to get done somehow and someone was willing to do it. You take it so damn personally. Maybe if you did your job correctly in the first place, (or listened to feedback), there would be nothing to complain about. If you're going to call us a "team," act like we're a team. They're not just empty platitudes. I highly doubt you could run anything by yourself, you need us. Also...you guys are really rude sometimes, it makes INTJs blush.

    ENTPs: Oh please. You people act like you're the greatest person out there. You guys have a massive ego problem. You're also narcissists who love the sound of their own voices. It's kind of cute when the ENFPs and INFPs ramble on, but when the ENTPs do it, it's terribly grating. How many times can I hear about your fcking dog? Or your kids amazing soccer abilities? Most of my ENTP interactions are extremely one sided....usually because I can't get a word in edgewise! Also...you're usually wrong. When INTJs and INTPs correct you and you get sore about it, that's your own fault. Maybe you should know the right answer. I don't know what to say. How can you be upset at an INTJ for correcting your lack of knowledge?

    Most people say arrogance is a J problem, but I definitely see it as an E problem.

    INFJs: you guys seem to think everything is subjective..well it isn't. Sorry. Some things are just objective. A rainy day is not God crying, to me that's just denial. There are some truths, no need to get mad when INTJs point them out. Maybe you were wrong, what's so bad about admitting you're wrong? But everything is subjective so no one can ever be wrong, we're just arrogant if we can't see that! Also...why are you so close to me when we talk, you're like right in my face. Just step back a little bit. Really...boundaries please...

    INFPs: Oh boy, please stop rambling. You guys ramble about nothing and I usually end up spacing out for 90% of the conversation. Then you whine about how no one likes you, well stop rambling so much. Also, can we ever be on time for anything? Or plan? Is that so difficult? Then you get nasty when something goes wrong or we get lost...and we just sit there staring out into space god forbid we should anger the sleeping bear...

    ENFPs: Again...the planning thing. At least you don't get angry when things go wrong. Also, I hate how you guys make plans, break them, make them again, only to break them. It's like a fairweather friend some times. Are you coming or going? I don't have time for this...I want a friend who will be there for me physically. Not just emotionally. Also, it hurts our feelings! (yes people we do have them) Did you ever stop and think about that? No, you're too busy flitting around from one person to the next to even consider them. And then you come back and act like you're all about our feelings..yeah ok.

    ISTJs: Wow. You guys are like robots. Do you ever think outside of the box? Is there even a box or is it just a line of code that instructs you on how to do rudimentary things? If people think INTJs are boring, perhaps you've never met ISTJs.

    ISTP: You guys are also robots, although you've been programmed to play pretty music or dance.

    ISFPs: Maybe you really just stink. You take it so personally when people criticize you or worse; "you're art." You're precious art. You pretentious turd. Oh and your hair looks stupid. Why can't you just dress like everyone else? Because you're so important and special and "artistic," even your farts are special, little snowflakes of art. But I'm sure you're going to go write a song about how upsetting this conversation was for you. Good. Go. Whatever gets that stupid haircut out of my face.

    ISFJs: Wow. You guys are super sensitive. Everyone is out to get you. There is a scammer or predator around every corner. Of course we're secretly plotting against you or talking sht behind your back. Yeesh, get a hold of yourself. Most people have better things to do than to think about you all the time. It's all about you. Also, stop complaining when people take advantage of you. I told you not to trust that person and you didn't listen. You actually got mad at me when I insinuated that. And you won't learn the next time either. Eventually you'll develop a martyr complex and we'll be staring off into space listening to you whine about the latest person who took advantage of you. (We gave up trying to warn you years ago).

    INTPs: You people have no concept of time. Yes it's true that at home you have ample time to read your star wars fan fiction, but here at work we have about 2 hours to get this thing done. Let's go! The quicker you get this done, the quicker you can read your stupid Star Wars fanfiction, but apparently this doesn't occur to you because you're still moving at a snail's pace. Why do guys all like Star Wars or Star Trek? Also, take a bath...with soap. Do you even own a hairbrush?

    ENFJs: Ok...you're likable and caring, it's nice to have a friend like that...just get out of my face. Why do you always have to meddle in things and in peoples' lives? Don't meddle in mine. But you don't seem to understand that, you can't take a hint. Maybe you don't know what's good for me, perhaps you're meddling is making things worse. But you're not listening because you're too busy meddling where I told you not to meddle. Oh and look, you made it worse, thank you for the added unnecessary hassle. Just stand there and shut up while I fix your mess. No really, stop! Oh never mind...

    ESTP: Stop lying to me. I know you're lying and you're full of crap. No I'm not giving you money. Stop taking my stuff and eating my food. God you're such a leech, but I'm sure you'll compliment me and emotionally manipulate me into giving you something. I give in just to get you out of my hair and after you leave think about how much I can't stand you. What is wrong with me? Why do I hate myself when I should be hating you?

    Doesn't feel too good, does it.

    I think INTJs are easier targets because they are quiet and placid. The whole, "INTJs think they know everything" nonsense can apply to every personality. You all think your opinions are the right ones and that everyone else is missing something. When someone comes along and gives you an objective answer or an opinion based on facts you freak the fck out. Maybe you should go dig up your own facts and have this thing called a discussion. Could be worth something. But it's much easier to sit there and pout and whine and talk about you "hate all INTJs!"

  6. #816
    I dare you :devil: geedoenfj's Avatar
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    Default Why do people hate INTJs?

    I don't hate them, but I hate their attitude
    they're often arrogant, and jump to conclusions
    Work for a cause not for Applause
    Live to express not to Impress



    "It's easier to complain than to take action to improve things" -JAVO

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  7. #817
    Senior Member Proctor's Avatar
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    Why do people hate INTJs?

    It's simple. We're prettier than them, and they know.

  8. #818
    Senior Member evilrubberduckie's Avatar
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    .... Felix's opinions are mean. D:
    "Advance, and never halt, for advancing is perfection. Advance and do not fear the thorns in the path, for they draw only corrupt blood."
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  9. #819
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
    Oh for the love of God....really?

    All types have extremely irritating qualities. What on earth makes INTJs so damn special in this regard? Are you people really so blind to them? Because I assure you...they are there and other people will mock them when you are no longer present. If INTJs don't like people, it's for a reason. It's because we know how two timing and two faced people really are when others aren't looking. Friendly and amiable to someone one minute, then hateful and vicious the second they turn their back. And we know that you are doing the same to us the second we leave the room. We don't trust people, whether or not we like them has nothing to do with it. Maybe you're charming, but so what? What bearing does this have in relationships? Charm is superficial and wains the minute you dig deeper into the relationship. INTJs have very little charm, but we tend to be very loyal people and truly appreciate an act of kindness. So all of your extroverts calling INTJs boring should take a step back and understand that your charm is a useless and worthless quality. Where does it get you in the end? A nice job? perhaps. A room full of artificial acquaintances? You can keep them!

    Typically I notice that people dislike others because they reflect their own insecurities. Most INTJs tend to be very placid people and people often vent, rant, or unload their problems on INTJs. We typically see you for what you are and that kind of freaks you out because you're so used to manipulating others with your false qualities.

    You don't like us because we're quiet and boring? Well let me list the things I dislike about others:

    ESTJs: Good god...too much to be said here and I suspect you people have received the brunt of insults from most other personalities. So I'll not saying anything about this type because I imagine it's all been said. Let's give the others on here a taste of their own medicine for a goddamn change and give you guys a break.

    ESFJs: Wow. This type. I always have a problem with them and I'm never the one to initiate it. I often feel targeted by them for no reason. I have a calm composure, look easy to bully I guess. I don't really get it, but this is the only type that makes me feel downright intimidated.

    ESFPs: You guys always have so many problems going on in your life, it makes me dizzy looking at you. It's Usually because you are completely disorganized. You tend to be prone to conspiracy theories, what's up with that?? You tend to enjoy risk seeking activities, I don't even think we are on the same page in anyway whatsoever. But that's ok, vive la difference. If only you could see this about us.

    ENTJ: You guys are horrible leaders and can't see it. Anyone who tries to point this out tends to get under your skin. What's even worse is when someone tries to do the correct thing behind your back. Look...it's nothing personal. That thing needs to get done somehow and someone was willing to do it. You take it so damn personally. Maybe if you did your job correctly in the first place, (or listened to feedback), there would be nothing to complain about. If you're going to call us a "team," act like we're a team. They're not just empty platitudes. I highly doubt you could run anything by yourself, you need us. Also...you guys are really rude sometimes, it makes INTJs blush.

    ENTPs: Oh please. You people act like you're the greatest person out there. You guys have a massive ego problem. You're also narcissists who love the sound of their own voices. It's kind of cute when the ENFPs and INFPs ramble on, but when the ENTPs do it, it's terribly grating. How many times can I hear about your fcking dog? Or your kids amazing soccer abilities? Most of my ENTP interactions are extremely one sided....usually because I can't get a word in edgewise! Also...you're usually wrong. When INTJs and INTPs correct you and you get sore about it, that's your own fault. Maybe you should know the right answer. I don't know what to say. How can you be upset at an INTJ for correcting your lack of knowledge?

    Most people say arrogance is a J problem, but I definitely see it as an E problem.

    INFJs: you guys seem to think everything is subjective..well it isn't. Sorry. Some things are just objective. A rainy day is not God crying, to me that's just denial. There are some truths, no need to get mad when INTJs point them out. Maybe you were wrong, what's so bad about admitting you're wrong? But everything is subjective so no one can ever be wrong, we're just arrogant if we can't see that! Also...why are you so close to me when we talk, you're like right in my face. Just step back a little bit. Really...boundaries please...

    INFPs: Oh boy, please stop rambling. You guys ramble about nothing and I usually end up spacing out for 90% of the conversation. Then you whine about how no one likes you, well stop rambling so much. Also, can we ever be on time for anything? Or plan? Is that so difficult? Then you get nasty when something goes wrong or we get lost...and we just sit there staring out into space god forbid we should anger the sleeping bear...

    ENFPs: Again...the planning thing. At least you don't get angry when things go wrong. Also, I hate how you guys make plans, break them, make them again, only to break them. It's like a fairweather friend some times. Are you coming or going? I don't have time for this...I want a friend who will be there for me physically. Not just emotionally. Also, it hurts our feelings! (yes people we do have them) Did you ever stop and think about that? No, you're too busy flitting around from one person to the next to even consider them. And then you come back and act like you're all about our feelings..yeah ok.

    ISTJs: Wow. You guys are like robots. Do you ever think outside of the box? Is there even a box or is it just a line of code that instructs you on how to do rudimentary things? If people think INTJs are boring, perhaps you've never met ISTJs.

    ISTP: You guys are also robots, although you've been programmed to play pretty music or dance.

    ISFPs: Maybe you really just stink. You take it so personally when people criticize you or worse; "you're art." You're precious art. You pretentious turd. Oh and your hair looks stupid. Why can't you just dress like everyone else? Because you're so important and special and "artistic," even your farts are special, little snowflakes of art. But I'm sure you're going to go write a song about how upsetting this conversation was for you. Good. Go. Whatever gets that stupid haircut out of my face.

    ISFJs: Wow. You guys are super sensitive. Everyone is out to get you. There is a scammer or predator around every corner. Of course we're secretly plotting against you or talking sht behind your back. Yeesh, get a hold of yourself. Most people have better things to do than to think about you all the time. It's all about you. Also, stop complaining when people take advantage of you. I told you not to trust that person and you didn't listen. You actually got mad at me when I insinuated that. And you won't learn the next time either. Eventually you'll develop a martyr complex and we'll be staring off into space listening to you whine about the latest person who took advantage of you. (We gave up trying to warn you years ago).

    INTPs: You people have no concept of time. Yes it's true that at home you have ample time to read your star wars fan fiction, but here at work we have about 2 hours to get this thing done. Let's go! The quicker you get this done, the quicker you can read your stupid Star Wars fanfiction, but apparently this doesn't occur to you because you're still moving at a snail's pace. Why do guys all like Star Wars or Star Trek? Also, take a bath...with soap. Do you even own a hairbrush?

    ENFJs: Ok...you're likable and caring, it's nice to have a friend like that...just get out of my face. Why do you always have to meddle in things and in peoples' lives? Don't meddle in mine. But you don't seem to understand that, you can't take a hint. Maybe you don't know what's good for me, perhaps you're meddling is making things worse. But you're not listening because you're too busy meddling where I told you not to meddle. Oh and look, you made it worse, thank you for the added unnecessary hassle. Just stand there and shut up while I fix your mess. No really, stop! Oh never mind...

    ESTP: Stop lying to me. I know you're lying and you're full of crap. No I'm not giving you money. Stop taking my stuff and eating my food. God you're such a leech, but I'm sure you'll compliment me and emotionally manipulate me into giving you something. I give in just to get you out of my hair and after you leave think about how much I can't stand you. What is wrong with me? Why do I hate myself when I should be hating you?

    Doesn't feel too good, does it.

    I think INTJs are easier targets because they are quiet and placid. The whole, "INTJs think they know everything" nonsense can apply to every personality. You all think your opinions are the right ones and that everyone else is missing something. When someone comes along and gives you an objective answer or an opinion based on facts you freak the fck out. Maybe you should go dig up your own facts and have this thing called a discussion. Could be worth something. But it's much easier to sit there and pout and whine and talk about you "hate all INTJs!"
    This is a quite excellent example of an INTJ rant.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #820
    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    I find INTJs are a lot like myself only much more serious.
    When I debate/argue its like:


    And when the INTJs do it its:

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