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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    ^knee-jerk "Fi"
    I like your words, but they don't make much sense to me, which could be a failing on my part. The last post here I get; something I've always dubbed 'special snowflake' syndrome; a common individualistic approach to psychology that is primarily rooted in Fi; though I tend to subscribe to more of a Fe universalist/collectivist approach of collating psychological tendencies, at least in the realm of recreational speculation. Your direct response to me, however...the meaning eludes me-- which is not wholly uncommon for me when talking to INTJs; something about the Ni prevents them from being effective communicators, I think...though with adequate Te, it can be overcome.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    The thread originally when I just checked in here 2 minutes ago say that there were 37 guests, which was absolutely mind-blowing; of course, now it's down to 33.

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    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Oh ho, the develop your functions gambit. Does it relate to recapitulating the facts, I wonder? Recapitulating the facts is always so pleasant.
    This doesn't really clarify your earlier post...and I'm not really sure where this is going, or why.

    Are we arguing? If so, what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    The truth? The truth is Ni can never be a priori reasoning. Aside from not being reasoning, Ni is personalised - from wherever the power to identify patterns arises, no pattern rises up just because. There is always instead somewhere in the chain of presentation some straightforward seed datum that was taken up by the person and found to be evocative. It was suggestive, and content was abstracted from it, even grown over it. Whatever exists in a given person's "Ni" may have elements that are formally prior to experience, but the Ni itself is formally a posteriori.

    You can't have Ni without experience. You can have Ni without direct experience. If you do want to have direct experience, possibly Ni will summon a mystical ball of lightning to prevent it, but you know, maybe not too.
    You're right, it is personalized - I am this, and I am Ni - therefore, Ni is this. It creates a feedback loop that can never be severed, which is why my propensity to discuss things such as this is growing incredibly weak.

    The bolded is my initial assertion as to why my preference coexists with a state of being farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr removed from introverted intuition. Human intuition is shown to be laughably weak at determining a true state of affairs, and Ni does not equate to good intuition, it equates to a higher propensity to employ intuition (and worse, stick by its guns).

    And trust me - they will try to prevent experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I guess this may be something I don't know the whole story behind....I don't know Zara's and superunknown's history...?
    It's been my experience that Zara doesn't like ISTPs, or people that he thinks are ISTPs.

    This may have something to do with them not being opposite enough to be interesting, yet also not similar enough to be relatable.

    He also has a clear dislike for Ti analysis. But at least with TiNe, there's a stronger intuition and exploration of ideas backing it up, so he can work with that, albeit with effort.

    But try to back up the Ti with the opposite function of Zara's Ni, which is Se, then there's going to be a big clash between experiential perception versus what I've seen him cal Ni "meta-perspectives".

    I'm just guessing a meta-perspective is a funny way of saying that you can see things across a contingency spectrum of angles, from different possible meanings or vantage points and through the eyes of other people at many levels, come to integrate them together into a multi-faceted prism of sorts.

    Of course, superunknown is also fond of the crystalization metaphor, so maybe there's a bigger bridge than we think.

  6. #66
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    @superunknown

    To try to equate Creationists with Ni users, if that's what you just did, is a dumb and false conflation, so that's your error in reasoning.

    Also, it is not simply a feedback loop if the NJ has removed themself from the infantile states of being and 1) started balancing their introversion and extroversion (for INJs, developing their aux Je function), and 2) recognized and severed their problematic relationship with their shadow, and learned the importance of assimilating/merging these functions into their consciousness (i.e., develop their tertiary and inferior Ji and Se functions). The better a job the NJ has done at these two things, the less the issues that you complain of will be present in them.

    As to intuition being "laughably weak at determining a true state of affairs", that is a very weak claim at best, and, juju ust as I said in my previous post, consider this (which is the truth): you are criticizing not all intuition, but your own laughably weak intuition, which resides in a an undeveloped infantile state. My intuition is likely to be vastly superior to yours (not the least reason of which would be because I have done precisely those things that I have said one ought to do above [which actually improve one's ability to effectively utilize one's dominant function by presenting other relevant information/considerations that ought be taken into account, so that the dominant isn't just following some solely self-contained, and thus potentially peril-fraught, course of action {the proverbial "echo chamber"}], but also because I have been using it extensively my whole life, and thus have far more experience with it, its subtleties, its nuances, and how to properly wield it).
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  7. #67
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    Creationists are like textbook Ni. Particularly the doomspeakers. If you don't see the correlation you've never read Jung or anything he based the S/N dichotomy off of.

    I'm almost surprised you aren't aware of how notoriously bad intuition is documented as being. Check out "Thinking Fast and Slow".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    It's been my experience that Zara doesn't like ISTPs, or people that he thinks are ISTPs.

    This may have something to do with them not being opposite enough to be interesting, yet also not similar enough to be relatable.

    He also has a clear dislike for Ti analysis. But at least with TiNe, there's a stronger intuition and exploration of ideas backing it up, so he can work with that, albeit with effort.

    But try to back up the Ti with the opposite function of Zara's Ni, which is Se, then there's going to be a big clash between experiential perception versus what I've seen him cal Ni "meta-perspectives".
    This isn't entirely true.

    I have no problem with Jon, aside from this current spate of dumb thinking.

    I also have no inherent problem with TPs or Ti, only with Ti reets (lowly developed TPs who have poor utilization/development of their non-ego functions to balance out their ego functions [TiPe]). Some TPs here are actually some of my favorite posters. They are remarkably balanced, objective and insightful. I wish all TPs could be like them.

    I'm just guessing a meta-perspective is a funny way of saying that you can see things across a contingency spectrum of angles, from different possible meanings or vantage points and through the eyes of other people at many levels, come to integrate them together into a multi-faceted prism of sorts.
    That's not a bad definition.

    Not sure how it's any less funny than "metaperspectivize", tho. :P

    Of course, superunknown is also fond of the crystalization metaphor, so maybe there's a bigger bridge than we think.
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    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Creationists are like textbook Ni. Particularly the doomspeakers. If you don't see the correlation you've never read Jung or anything he based the S/N dichotomy off of.

    I'm almost surprised you aren't aware of how notoriously bad intuition is documented as being. Check out "Thinking Fast and Slow".
    I'm taking your side on this one; it's not that considering the various possibilities intuition can present us with is bad, but what is bad is when we act on it or assume things without question. I used to have a bigger problem with this, although I've found over time with experience that our intuitions are often off, or at least incomplete. The truth quite often actually seems to be counter-intuitive - that is, it goes against our initial expectations.

    I read a quote once that went comething like: it's dangerour to jump to conclusions in regards to conspiracy theories; never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by Occam's Razor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Creationists are like textbook Ni. Particularly the doomspeakers. If you don't see the correlation you've never read Jung or anything he based the S/N dichotomy off of.
    I am familiar with Jung, and this is still a stupid conflation on your part.

    If your reasoning weren't based so much on simple-minded Se "analysis", which is notoriously bad at seeing things from multiple perspectives, maybe the blinders could come off and you would see your erroneous reasoning for what it is.

    I'm almost surprised you aren't aware of how notoriously bad intuition is documented as being. Check out "Thinking Fast and Slow".
    Oh, I understand how bad it can be.

    I'm also familiar with how amazingly accurate and insightful it can be on a pretty consistent basis.
    The Justice Fighter

    XXXX - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


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