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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    I've definitely observed that sort of behavior on an INTJ forum I used to frequent. But I also saw quite a few INTJs who were extremely emotional in their defense of impartial logic. Which seems paradoxical, contradictory, and downright crazy, but there you have it.

    Honestly though, I think any type can be overly emotional, if they're poorly developed, including INTJs. It just takes different triggers to set them off.
    Ah, but it is the BELIEF in logic that is immature, whether expressed emotionally (i.e., dramatically) or not. The emotionality isn't what is mature/immature per se.

    There is a correlation of course: anyone can become emotional as their immature beliefs are challenged. As you noted, each kind of belief has its own trigger.

    Want to see something really awesome?! Watch how an emotional and mature person handles things.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Want to see something really awesome?! Watch how an emotional and mature person handles things.
    There is a lot of truth in this. I find that once the word 'rational' gets trotted out, you are very likely to be treated to an immature tirade of sorts. It's almost like the leading indicator of a tantrum that will surely follow. An immature INTJ will defend a belief to the grave, the more it's pulled apart, the more tenanciously they cling and the more likely the word 'rational' will be thrown around like an insult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lulabelle View Post
    wow. so damn accurate. immature INTJs can be so flippin irrational about very personal issues that touch their Fi... like anything to do with feminism and masculinity if they're a dude, for instance. they can be completely incapable of engaging different sides of a sensitive issue without losing their shyt
    That sounds more like immature INFP behaviour to me, take a look in the mirror some time

    INTJs won't "lose their shit" over a value system. T types and INTJs especially aren't famous for having an emotional attachment to their beliefs. INTJ who feel they're not in control are much more likely to start insulting you, or become overly argumentative.

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    Senior Member Array riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    That sounds more like immature INFP behaviour to me, take a look in the mirror some time

    INTJs won't "lose their shit" over a value system. T types and INTJs especially aren't famous for having an emotional attachment to their beliefs. INTJ who feel they're not in control are much more likely to start insulting you, or become overly argumentative.
    He does have a point. They are quite attached to their own beliefs and are completely incapable of seeing different sides of certain if not most sensitive issues. This is tert Fi.

    However, they don't lose their shit often. Just adamantly hold on to what believe is right and completely miss the point of the other person.

    Fi doms would try to dig in and understand where the other person is coming from. Their feelings behind their thoughts and actions perhaps, which makes INFPs the best at understanding or attempting to TRULY understand someone.

    (Ti doms do the same, but instead of trying to understand the feelings of the other person or the personality of the other person, they try to understand the logic. Then they would correct your incorrect logic. Lolz)

    However, Fi in a tert position wouldn't be concerned or have the patience to understand another. It's not that strong to be used that way, just strong enough to tell you that your are right and other person is wrong.
    .
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    Senior Member Array Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    INTJs won't "lose their shit" over a value system. T types and INTJs especially aren't famous for having an emotional attachment to their beliefs. INTJ who feel they're not in control are much more likely to start insulting you, or become overly argumentative.
    Several INTJs have lost their shit over a value system in this forum. I could rattle off their names. When fired up on all cylinders, it's like watching a political activist. And the show goes on and on and on and on and . . .
    From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines.

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    Analytical Dreamer Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    He does have a point. They are quite attached to their own beliefs and are completely incapable of seeing different sides of certain if not most sensitive issues. This is tert Fi.

    However, they don't lose their shit often. Just adamantly hold on to what believe is right and completely miss the point of the other person.

    Fi doms would try to dig in and understand where the other person is coming from. Their feelings behind their thoughts and actions perhaps, which makes INFPs the best at understanding or attempting to TRULY understand someone.

    (Ti doms do the same, but instead of trying to understand the feelings of the other person or the personality of the other person, they try to understand the logic. Then they would correct your incorrect logic. Lolz)

    However, Fi in a tert position wouldn't be concerned or have the patience to understand another. It's not that strong to be used that way, just strong enough to tell you that your are right and other person is wrong.
    This is at best an oversimplification. In fact, I'm not sure it works that way at all. Fi tells us that what we are arguing for is important. That is what makes us stick to our guns. Note this is not a relative judgment. It doesn't say "my position is more important than yours", just that mine is so important I can't let it go. In this sense, it is not thinking of the other person at all. It should recognize somewhere that the other person may value his/her position just as much, and recognize the situation as a draw on this count, and move on to some other form of measuring the one position against the other. This is where INTJs should use Te to sort it out.

    When I find myself in such a situation, especially IRL where real things are at stake, I try to ask: why is the other person so invested in this? what is important to him/her (what is his/her stake) in the situation? Identifying this and following up with a strong Te argument that shows how their needs or values are supported as well is how win-win solutions often come about.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Several INTJs have lost their shit over a value system in this forum. I could rattle off their names. When fired up on all cylinders, it's like watching a political activist. And the show goes on and on and on and on and . . .
    If we're generalising, INTJs (and IxTx types in general) can suffer from an reluctance to see the other person's perspective, and dogmatism. I just can't imagine an INTJ "losing his shit" over politics because they're not externally passionate people, and a few anecdotes on the forum won't change that. I will explain why in a second.

    Emotional under pressure? TBH, that reminds me of Fi doms more than any other types. It doesn't take much for them to start insulting you and what you believe, because there is no function above to rein in their Fi. The recent threads on Islam are a good example of this, as Tellenbach and I were subjected to a barrage of insults and Fi stubbornness. I was frustrated and offended by that, so eventually left.

    Angry feelings are liable to just take over whenever INFP values, especially, are crossed, and an INTJ, even an INTJ cp6, will not react so strongly. While being passionate about what you believe is not a bad thing in and of itself; you just need to be able to take a step back and not worship your own ideology like a religion. (I know liberals are not the only people who do that, btw.)

    /moralising over

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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    @riva is halfway correct @Coriolis

    I've been rereading Quenk, and one of the things that she emphasized is that undeveloped, unconscious functions tend to be all or nothing, black and white. It doesn't matter what function. So for young INTJs, when conversation starts to traverse feelings/values, there will tend to be a binary (or even singular) treatment of possibilities. As one develops a function, it gathers more shades of gray, if you will (though perhaps not 50 ...), eventually expanding into full color for dom/aux functions.

    So yeah, an Fi dom would definitely have the shades of gray, and a mature Fi dom would have a full palette of color, but a mature INTJ with Fi tert certainly has the shades of gray figured out, if not the Fi dom's full innate descernment.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
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    Senior Member Array Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    If we're generalising, INTJs (and IxTx types in general) can suffer from an reluctance to see the other person's perspective, and dogmatism. I just can't imagine an INTJ "losing his shit" over politics because they're not externally passionate people, and a few anecdotes on the forum won't change that. I will explain why in a second.

    Emotional under pressure? TBH, that reminds me of Fi doms more than any other types. It doesn't take much for them to start insulting you and what you believe, because there is no function above to rein in their Fi. The recent threads on Islam are a good example of this, as Tellenbach and I were subjected to a barrage of insults and Fi stubbornness. I was frustrated and offended by that, so eventually left.

    Angry feelings are liable to just take over whenever INFP values, especially, are crossed, and an INTJ, even an INTJ cp6, will not react so strongly. While being passionate about what you believe is not a bad thing in and of itself; you just need to be able to take a step back and not worship your own ideology like a religion. (I know liberals are not the only people who do that, btw.)

    /moralising over
    Frankly, you joined this forum after all the INTJ drama queens took off their diamond-studded tiaras.
    From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines.

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    Senior Member Array lulabelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    That sounds more like immature INFP behaviour to me, take a look in the mirror some time

    INTJs won't "lose their shit" over a value system. T types and INTJs especially aren't famous for having an emotional attachment to their beliefs. INTJ who feel they're not in control are much more likely to start insulting you, or become overly argumentative.
    Clearly you have never met an immature, angry INTJ male talking (raging) about gamergate and/or fired up about 'feminazis.' I have had an INTJ scream in my face about one of these issues.

    I can definitely get heated about issues but because i'm dom-fi i also have a tremendous amount of empathy, which immature INTJs generally don't have much of... so if someone gets them fired up on an issue that is somewhat sensitive to them in some way, they can act in a really intense, emotionally-fuelled way with zero respect for anyone's emotions. I usuallly really try to understand.

    I can speak about issues like feminism with INTPs, generally... they are detached from the subject and don't get so damn heated and angry (and frankly quite scary) about it. They are very interested in seeing different sides of the issue. INTJs don't always seem as interested. INTJs can be reallllyyy unreasonable when their emotions are engaged, because for immature INTJs, their emotional and general experience is the only valid one. I tried to talk to an INTJ about how hard it is to be black in this society (i'm not black, was just discussing the topic) and he refused to concede that it was any harder than his life has been in any possible way because to him, his life experience is the standard and it was the hardest. It's that black/white underdeveloped Fi thing.

    I can't tell you how many immature INTJs i've come across who have major emotional explosions over a topic that has particular sensitivity to them. And I can't tell you how many INTJs are like 'no, that is clearly an INFP, we aren't like that ever' ::eyeroll:: the one time I brought this thing up on another forum.

    Again, I am talking about UNHEALTHY, IMMATURE INTJs. Basically, I echo what @riva said... my experiences echo everything in that user's comment. And of course, I am not claiming that I'm some beacon of reason and light all of the time... but I do think I'm generally fairly reasonable because I try to see other people's sides of the issue

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