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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #651
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Well, I never said I didn't have my own list of names below his, Smarty pants.


    LOL! Rightly spoken.



    Haha!



    Precisely.
    Hmm, at the risk of getting *both* feet in my mouth --

    didn't I read somewhere that you were into martial arts?

    *IF* so, can you compare and contrast how to break up and prepare your speech into well-ordered, concise, comprehensible bite-size chunks for the fledgling learner, to how one breaks up the essential components of motion when teaching a kata, or kick, or block, or strike?

    (humble-at-least-for-an-INTJ-hat-in-hand-begging-mode): please, please, PLEASE, @Ene, if you have an example of a specific move you break down in order to teach it, could you type in a sample explanation? I'd love to try to intuitively reverse-engineer the thought process and body awareness.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.
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  2. #652
    Suave y Fuerte Array BadOctopus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evastover View Post
    Wait, what?

    People hate INTJ's?

    I must have been living under a sparkly pink idealistic rock all these years ._.
    You INFPs are so adorable.

    Everyone else, however, tends to associate INTJs with this guy:


    Also this guy:


    I'll admit, the case for us is not great.
    WOOP WOOP WOOP

  3. #653
    Sad boy. Array Obsidius's Avatar
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    A lot of the time I think the reason people distain INTJ's is for two reasons;

    1. Where most people seek emotional comfort and understanding, we often employ reason. This comes off as cold, and I've heard a lot of people tell me, and the two INTJ friends that I have in real life, that it makes us hard to deal with.

    2. Our confrontational and argumentative nature can be a bit too much for people, especially because we seem to offend people with our criticisms of ideas.

    ---

    Oh that's another thing, the way we criticise every new idea and suggestion can come off as though we aren't open to new ideas or suggestions. I've heard this as a common criticism of our type, and it's fair enough I guess. But just to inform everyone, we're not denying your idea or your suggestion, we're just testing if it holds even a mL of water before we put it to any use, learn the difference.
    I celebrate myself, and sing myself,
    And what I assume you shall assume,
    For every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you.


  4. #654
    Senior Member Array Ene's Avatar
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    @grey_beard


    Hmm, at the risk of getting *both* feet in my mouth –
    Haha…not to worry.

    didn't I read somewhere that you were into martial arts?
    You most likely did.

    I am a first degree black sash in Baguazhang [not that it means so much, except I earned my rank on the anniversary of Bruce Lee’s death. For some reason that felt significant to me, because I didn’t realize what day it was until I got home and saw it on the news. It seemed like a good omen, or a bad one, depending on how you look at it, or maybe just a neat incident of synchronicity.]

    *IF* so, can you compare and contrast how to break up and prepare your speech into well-ordered, concise, comprehensible bite-size chunks for the fledgling learner, to how one breaks up the essential components of motion when teaching a kata, or kick, or block, or strike?
    I will do my best.

    [humble-at-least-for-an-INTJ-hat-in-hand-begging-mode): please, please, PLEASE, @Ene, if you have an example of a specific move you break down in order to teach it, could you type in a sample explanation? [B]I'd love to try to intuitively reverse-engineer the thought process and body awareness
    .

    How could I refuse a fellow Ni-dom with his hat in his hand? That is not a sight I see everyday. See the bolded; I think that’s a cool idea.

    But without being able to demonstrate the physical actions, this may be hard to do. Demonstration is a huge part of martial arts training. I am taking one very small, simple technique and breaking it down. It, of course, is a piece of a much larger puzzle that I would later begin to help my students put together. Bagua is an art that is built up over many years and everything is completely connected to everything else.

    As with any body of knowledge, martial arts are very varied and comprehensive, spanning the globe, so I will zero in on my particular chosen style and from that I will zero in on one particular concept.

    So let’s pretend you are a new student, who maybe just walked in off the street, showing up at one of my regular classes. Let’s say you asked me to teach you just one concept, whichever one we happen to be working on that day. Maybe you say you are doing it for an experiment in how cognitive functions affect a teacher’s communication. [That’s not stretching our pretending too far.]

    How would you like to learn a basic concept of our family lineage’s Southern-Style Chinese staff fighting today? That’s what we’re working on in class today.
    [My partner and I would demonstrate some staff fighting and all of the students would say…cool or bad…or awesome…or maybe, “I’m out of here. These people are nuts.”]

    So, let’s take just one of those concepts, how to control your staff.

    Now, keep in mind that even though we’re using a bamboo staff in today’s class, anything with a handle can be a weapon and I do mean anything, a broom, a mop, a cane, a hoe, a rake, a bat, anything.

    Now, I want you to hold your staff like this. Your right hand should be between six inches and a foot from the end of your staff and your left hand should be about a foot from your right one. [Demonstrate and check to make sure every student is doing it correctly. If they’re not, I help them.] This position allows for the maximum output of energy with minimum effort on your part. We do it this way because it is the most efficient way we’ve found.

    The right knuckles face upward and are curled just tight enough to guide the stick but are relaxed and loose enough to let it slide, and the left fingers face upward as they curl around the stick. Now, we are going to learn to control the stick with the left hand, unless you are left-handed, then we are going to switch sides and do it the opposite way because in this technique the weak hand controls the bottom of the stick. The strong hand guides the stick. [Demonstrate it both ways. I watch and make sure everybody’s got the feel of it.]

    Now, make small, tight circles with the hand near the back end of your stick, usually the left, [I demonstrate it] and you will notice that this causes the other end of your stick, the longer end that is in front of the left side of your body where you should be holding your stick, to make much wider circles. This exercise is to help you be able to do this. My partner here comes in on me to attack me [my partner comes at me as if attempting to attack me] and instead of hitting him with my stick; I shove the back of my stick forward right through the loose fingers of my right hand as if shooting pool. See, as he came at me he was expecting me to hit him, not shoot him as if he were a pool ball. This is very much like controlling a pool stick. The hand at the back of the stick generates the power and momentum and the resulting impact is much greater than if I just whacked him over the head. Much of kung fu depends on understanding how energy is moved from point A to point B in the most efficient way.

    It’s important that you don’t think of the staff, or any weapon for that matter, as something separate from yourself, but rather as an extension of yourself. It’s an extension of your arm. Never focus on the weapon. And don’t “try” to be fast. Instead, be fluid. Remember, that smoothness, fluidity, is speed. Again, don’t worry about being fast in a technique. Concentrate on making it a natural part of your own movement. Practice it until it is fluid, until it flows and you don’t even have to think about it. Commit it to your muscle memory. Keep doing it over and over, until you can do a move without thinking about it, like a reflex. Until it becomes a natural part of your physical and mental makeup, you haven’t learned it. You must internalize it so that it becomes an external part of yourself. You are not holding a weapon, you are the weapon. To my younger students I might ask them to tell me what I just said in my own words. I would have the students practice this movement over and over and over.

    I would then place some small rings around the walls of the room and have the students practice controlling that stick with their weak hand until they could get a strike through the ring. We would work on precision and then I would make the ring smaller. When the student had mastered that technique, I would instruct them to practice it at home and go back and work on previously learned skills or perhaps introduce the next concept, but I rarely teach more than one or two new concepts in a single session. Most people can’t handle more than one or two new techniques per lesson.

    Oh, I have to end this lesson for now. I am supposed to see a movie with an ISTJ. Have you ever been late to do something with an ISTJ? It's like the unpardonable sin.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14
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  5. #655
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    I'm sorry to bring this up, as I now understand you are not a big fan of Feynman:
    I am sure he would not have been a big fan of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Hmm, at the risk of getting *both* feet in my mouth --

    didn't I read somewhere that you were into martial arts?

    *IF* so, can you compare and contrast how to break up and prepare your speech into well-ordered, concise, comprehensible bite-size chunks for the fledgling learner, to how one breaks up the essential components of motion when teaching a kata, or kick, or block, or strike?
    As a student of martial arts (though far less accomplished than @Ene), I find I do better by seeing the entire technique first, and in fact that is how my instructors teach. Otherwise I have no context or frame of reference for those individual steps. They are like the steps of a party scavenger hunt, where you don't know where you will be sent next. In practice as we gain experience we can often anticipate the next move in a new technique, if not accurately at least suitably, but seeing it beginning to end is like having the box lid of the jigsaw puzzle.

    Interestingly, we do have a manual of techniques that we are fed level by level, but the descriptions are almost useless until you have actually studied the techniques. Then they are useful as a reminder, should you forget whether this strike or that comes after the kick, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evastover View Post
    Wait, what?

    People hate INTJ's?

    I must have been living under a sparkly pink idealistic rock all these years ._.
    Most assuredly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    You INFPs are so adorable.

    Everyone else, however, tends to associate INTJs with this guy:
    No way. He's too obvious. We are more like this fellow in that we keep you guessing:

    Last edited by Coriolis; 01-13-2015 at 10:31 PM. Reason: Fixed image link.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #656
    Suave y Fuerte Array BadOctopus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No way. He's too obvious. We are more like this fellow in that we keep you guessing:

    Well, most people do go for the obvious association.

    The picture isn't showing up for some reason, but from the link, I see you're referring to Snape. Hell YES.
    WOOP WOOP WOOP

  7. #657
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    Well, most people do go for the obvious association.

    The picture isn't showing up for some reason, but from the link, I see you're referring to Snape. Hell YES.
    @Coriolis, @BadOctopus. Crud. I couldn't even see the link!

    (Thanks, @BadOctopus, for clueing me in.)
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  8. #658
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    cuz I can't figure out anywords that INTJ rearanged makes
    Perfectly robust chickens
    Run laps a lot
    Pee on the garden
    Leap over fences
    Cock is a word for rooster
    Hen is a type of chicken?
    Kit kats are good
    Nice chickens don't belong in the
    Zoo
    ~@magpie

  9. #659
    Male Array johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    A lot of the time I think the reason people distain INTJ's is for two reasons;

    1. Where most people seek emotional comfort and understanding, we often employ reason. This comes off as cold, and I've heard a lot of people tell me, and the two INTJ friends that I have in real life, that it makes us hard to deal with.

    2. Our confrontational and argumentative nature can be a bit too much for people, especially because we seem to offend people with our criticisms of ideas.
    But see, aren't those ENTP characteristics too? Maybe not coming off as cold, but certainly as unattached (and yeah, ENTPs can be annoying as well).

    I suppose it's a little harder for me to see the INTJ "flaws," perhaps cuz many are my own.

    Oh, btw, INTJs totally drool on themselves when they sleep.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.
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  10. #660
    The Typing Tabby Array grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    @grey_beard




    How could I refuse a fellow Ni-dom with his hat in his hand? That is not a sight I see everyday. See the bolded; I think that’s a cool idea.

    But without being able to demonstrate the physical actions, this may be hard to do. Demonstration is a huge part of martial arts training. I am taking one very small, simple technique and breaking it down. It, of course, is a piece of a much larger puzzle that I would later begin to help my students put together. Bagua is an art that is built up over many years and everything is completely connected to everything else.

    As with any body of knowledge, martial arts are very varied and comprehensive, spanning the globe, so I will zero in on my particular chosen style and from that I will zero in on one particular concept.

    (snip)

    Oh, I have to end this lesson for now. I am supposed to see a movie with an ISTJ. Have you ever been late to do something with an ISTJ? It's like the unpardonable sin.
    @Ene -- thank you!
    @uumlau -- I *saw* you thank that post. Would you be willing to do the same thing for a beginning dance move? Say, the first couple of steps in a waltz?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

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