User Tag List

First 1555636465666775 Last

Results 641 to 650 of 1035

  1. #641
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    15,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Bad Octopus, I really liked your rant. You only spoke what I so often think concerning language and vocabulary. Also, I share the distaste for using a hundred words for what could be said in ten. I think a part of being a good writer is learning to get the most bang for your buck vocabulary-wise. Hence, I agree with, "But that's why having a good vocabulary is important. The more words you have in your arsenal, the easier it will be to express your thoughts clearly and concisely, without a lot of wasted words."
    I agree entirely. I never dumb down my vocabulary with anyone, even kids, though with them I try to provide enough context to figure it out when using a word I suspect might be unfamiliar. The exception is when I am explaining the "jargon" of a specific topic. Even then, I will try to get them to understand and explain the concept in the words they do know before giving them the "official" term for it. Science is more than a vocabulary lesson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Touching on Lewis, @grey_beard and I have spoken of him before. No single writer has influenced my thinking more and while our writing styles are far apart, separated by culture and years, our ways of seeing, of thinking, are not. I connect with Lewis. If there were any way possible (which I know there is not) to have a conversation with an author from the past, he'd be my first choice.
    I read some of Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, and heard so many good things about him. I then went on to read Mere Christianity and a couple other writings, hoping someone with his credentials and reputation could help me understand how an intelligent, rational, educated person can view Christianity in a way that makes sense. I was sorely disappointed in his line of reasoning and thus did not accomplish my goal (though I don't discount that a reasonable case can be made). I forget exactly why as it's been a few years since I read these things. I am more inspired by Joseph Campbell, and scientists like Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, or even Galileo.

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Now, don't get me wrong: I am not being elitist: rather, I think that MANY of the children who are busy attempting to spell out 'A Cat Sat On A Mat'
    are being shortchanged by educators, and would be capable of achieving far more, and assimilating far more, than they are commonly given credit for.

    "Another little portion of the human heritage has been quietly taken from them before they were old enough to understand."
    If someone can't spell out "A cat sat on a mat", he is clearly not ready to be reading Shakespeare. Note I said "reading": he can see it as a play, hear and discuss the story, etc. but the reading of Shakespeare does require some fundamental language skills. Kids (or grownups) at this elementary reading/writing level need good quality books to feed the rest of their intellect while their language skills develop. This was the aim and contribution of Dr Seuss, for instance. The problem comes when students who can read at this level are incorrectly placed in basic or remedial groups.

    As for taking away part of the human heritage, that happens at all levels, due to political correctness, academic over-standardization, and simple laziness/inertia. When I was in HS, we had to read Catcher in the Rye, Death of a Salesman, The Crucible, The Old Man and the Sea, and a handful of other books considered "great American literature". The Crucible was the only one worth anything. What's particularly sad and telling is that today's HS students have almost exactly the same reading list. Same for history, music, and even math/science.
    Last edited by Coriolis; 01-11-2015 at 04:06 PM. Reason: fixed sloppy quoting
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #642

    Default

    while I agree I'd *love* to talk to Lewis, there is a small slew of others I'd include at just a small step below him:
    G.K. Chesterton, Hilaire Belloc, P.G. Wodehouse...
    and Dick Feynman and Newton and Einstein and Niels Bohr
    Well, I never said I didn't have my own list of names below his, Smarty pants.
    the latter of whom, by way of returning to the point *and* acting as segue) said:

    Never express yourself more clearly than you can think.
    LOL! Rightly spoken.

    Isn't that the default communication mode of the INTJ anyway?
    Haha!

    Second, communicating with fourth-graders, and moreso to six year olds -- that kind of requires you to break things down into bite-size, first principles chunks. Which kind of ties together the quotes of Feynman, Lewis, and Bohr.
    Precisely.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  3. #643
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Enneagram
    3w2 so/sp
    Posts
    2,317

    Default

    I don't hate INTJs, I just don't generally get along with them particularly well. We tend to disagree a lot, which is usually fine. But, with INTJs I know it doesn't ususally work out very well. Ususally I can see and understand the INTJ's logic, but I'll just fundamentally disagree with the values that are behind the logic. I try to explain this, and they just end up thinking I'm stupid for disagreeing refuse to believe that I DO understand what they are saying. It's like if I still disagree with them, I can't possibly understand the argument. It has to be an Ni/Te thing, because I generally find ISTJs much more willing to agree to disagree.

    But, all that said, I really don't dislike them. We just bump heads. A lot.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

    3w2 6w7 1w2
    *Gryffindor*


  4. #644
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree entirely. I never dumb down my vocabulary with anyone, even kids, though with them I try to provide enough context to figure it out when using a word I suspect might be unfamiliar. The exception is when I am explaining the "jargon" of a specific topic. Even then, I will try to get them to understand and explain the concept in the words they do know before giving them the "official" term for it. Science is more than a vocabulary lesson.


    I read some of Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia, and heard so many good things about him. I then went on to read Mere Christianity and a couple other writings, hoping someone with his credentials and reputation could help me understand how an intelligent, rational, educated person can view Christianity in a way that makes sense. I was sorely disappointed in his line of reasoning and thus did not accomplish my goal (though I don't discount that a reasonable case to be made). I forget exactly why as it's been a few years since I read these things. I am more inspired by Joseph Campbell, and scientists like Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, or even Galileo.


    If someone can't spell out "A cat sat on a mat", he is clearly not ready to be reading Shakespeare. Note I said "reading": he can see it as a play, hear and discuss the story, etc. but the reading of Shakespeare does require some fundamental language skills. Kids (or grownups) at this elementary reading/writing level need good quality books to feed the rest of their intellect while their language skills develop. This was the aim and contribution of Dr Seuss, for instance. The problem comes when students who can read at this level are incorrectly placed in basic or remedial groups.

    As for taking away part of the human heritage, that happens at all levels, due to political correctness, academic over-standardization, and simple laziness/inertia. When I was in HS, we had to read Catcher in the Rye, Death of a Salesman, The Crucible, The Old Man and the Sea, and a handful of other books considered "great American literature". The Crucible was the only one worth anything. What's particularly sad and telling is that today's HS students have almost exactly the same reading list. Same for history, music, and even math/science.
    Your last paragraph encapsulates what I was trying to convey in my earlier post. There *are* people who are capable of tackling advanced reading (or at least a first pass) at a relatively young age; there are those who must wait until they are somewhat older; there are those who are capable but who have no taste for it; there are those for whom no attempt to convey it, will be sufficient.

    My take is that the "professional" educators (PC / academic overstandardization / laziness etc.) tend to throw up their hands far too soon (or even as it were "preemptively" and thus keep many youths from enjoying / tasting / being enriched and nourished on these things, *ostensibly* (according to Those Who Determine Such Things (TM) ) because it is too hard for the youth, but probably because of deficits on the part of the educators, either in their own apprehension, or ability to communicate the excitement or universal human themes or elegance of the writing ... but to cover for their own deficits, the children are blamed instead.

    Incidentally, and this is another hijack, my personal take is that many of the texts held up as "classic literature" by Those Who Determine Such Things (TM) are actually subtle indoctrination materials against Certain Outmoded Thought (TM) enforced by the ideologues behind professional education. People used to have much more expected of them across the board.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #645
    Suave y Fuerte BadOctopus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree entirely. I never dumb down my vocabulary with anyone, even kids, though with them I try to provide enough context to figure it out when using a word I suspect might be unfamiliar. The exception is when I am explaining the "jargon" of a specific topic. Even then, I will try to get them to understand and explain the concept in the words they do know before giving them the "official" term for it. Science is more than a vocabulary lesson.
    That's one of the reasons why I love the character of Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird. He never dumbed down his speech when he talked to his kids. Unless his courtroom language succeeded in genuinely stumping them, in which case he always explained himself in a way that wasn't demeaning.

    I am now grossly off-topic. lol
    WOOP WOOP WOOP

  6. #646

    Default

    @Coriolis Joseph Campbell is on my list.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  7. #647
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BadOctopus View Post
    That's one of the reasons why I love the character of Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird. He never dumbed down his speech when he talked to his kids. Unless his courtroom language succeeded in genuinely stumping them, in which case he always explained himself in a way that wasn't demeaning.

    I am now grossly off-topic. lol
    Harper Lee, the author of To Kill a Mockingbird is pretty fantastic herself. A school board tried to ban her book on the basis it was immoral so she sent them this -

    Letters of Note: The problem is one of illiteracy, not Marxism
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  8. #648
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    15,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    Incidentally, and this is another hijack, my personal take is that many of the texts held up as "classic literature" by Those Who Determine Such Things (TM) are actually subtle indoctrination materials against Certain Outmoded Thought (TM) enforced by the ideologues behind professional education. People used to have much more expected of them across the board.
    It may not be that off-topic. I suspect one of the reasons people may not like INTJs IRL is that we don't let them get away with this nonsense, especially if it has a direct impact on us.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #649
    Member Evastover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    2 sp/sx
    Socionics
    INFj Fi
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Wait, what?

    People hate INTJ's?

    I must have been living under a sparkly pink idealistic rock all these years ._.
    Likes BadOctopus liked this post

  10. #650
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It may not be that off-topic. I suspect one of the reasons people may not like INTJs IRL is that we don't let them get away with this nonsense, especially if it has a direct impact on us.
    I'm sorry to bring this up, as I now understand you are not a big fan of Feynman: but two examples of this were

    a) his "ENERGY makes it go!" from the school textbook, and his input on the school textbook selection process
    b) his investigation of the Challenger disaster and the gyrations and politics he ran into along the way
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

Similar Threads

  1. Why do people hate tradional thoughts and practices?
    By prplchknz in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 77
    Last Post: 05-08-2014, 08:01 PM
  2. Why do people love to hate Kristen Stewart?
    By gromit in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 07:20 PM
  3. [INFP] Why do people Hate the idea of being INFP?
    By CrystalViolet in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: 05-23-2011, 10:39 PM
  4. [INTJ] Why do people seem to dislike INTJs?
    By RenaiReborn in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 201
    Last Post: 06-03-2009, 08:36 AM
  5. [INTJ] Why do people Pretend to be INTJ's?
    By Dominicus Griswold in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 08-26-2008, 10:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts