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  1. #531
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    A final comment: I can understand the hostility that other INTJs like @WhoCares feel regarding the general pool of humanity, I just don't feel it myself for the most part. I do get quite irked at specific people, and sometimes specific groups of people, but just can't put the energy into anything more.
    I agree with this and I've always been that way to some degree. As I've gotten older, it's more pronounced. For the most part my feeling is - I'm irked but what's that going to change and do they really impact my life to any degree? Probably not.

    I'm sure it matters that I spend most of my time in relatively compatible environments. I tend to have much more of a "live-and-let-live" perspective on other people, and will often even extend it to "live-and-help-live". By this I mean if I can help someone, I generally will. I don't need to be their friend, or even like them, or have much personal interaction, or even "feel" much compassion. For me it is enough to see a need and know I can meet it (and that they will let me do so).
    Yes. If I help someone, I don't need to have any further anything about it. It's more about getting what needs doing done. They say thank you, I say you're welcome and we're done. I certainly don't feel anything is lacking there, the outcome is exactly what it would have been no matter what type was involved.

    The general feeling I'm coming away with in this thread is - you're doing it wrong. And....I don't have the energy to be anything more than irked.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #532
    Member hornet's Avatar
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    Cause they view Fe as some bad joke.


    Personally I've found INTJs to be real good people.
    But I see their tert Fi clear as day and I'm clearly cheating using the same function set.

  3. #533
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honor View Post
    Honestly, the last two INTJs I had extensive interaction with were narcissistic and elitist. I was surprised because I usually don't give a lot of credence to stereotypes. One of them admitted that he was intolerant, though, and the other one admitted he wasn't a sincere person. It's not like they're not aware of it; they just think it's acceptable to be that way because they are in social groups that promote it. I've noticed that INTJs won't do anything to damage their reputation; I have a hunch that if they were in groups that ridiculed that behavior, they'd drop the act like it was hot.

    I know a really great INTJ woman who is not elitist and thinks social clique rules are BS, though. It's not like awesome INTJs don't exist.


    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  4. #534
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornet View Post
    Cause they view Fe as some bad joke.
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
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  5. #535
    Member hornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Oh nothing, just some idea I got from the Bebee model.
    Archetypes and shit who believes in that...

  6. #536
    ¤ Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornet View Post
    Oh nothing, just some idea I got from the Bebee model.
    Archetypes and shit who believes in that...
    Pssht...

    Archetypes Schmarchetypes!

    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

    The Aggressive 6
    Debator


  7. #537
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    Yes it is. Honestly I find few redeeming features in humanity [as it is currently playing out] in general. I dont deny that my view of humanity is not shared by many, but then does it need to be? I thought a lot better of humanity before I had this career, but this job did teach me what I needed to know. It taught me things that 15yrs of office work had never exposed me to.

    People act differently in closed environments around familiar faces than they do in the wild. When you deal with the general public enmasse you really are exposed to the absolute worst behaviour. Somehow being surrounded by strangers gives people the idea that they are in a no consequences situation, then the real person (not the social programming) emerges. It is only then that you get to see what a person really is. Sadly what most people show themselves to be are tired, powerless children railing against the constriction in their lives. It's been a real eye opener that's for sure.

    I'm not saying people have no redeeming qualities nor brilliance or genius. But what I am saying is that all the inherent talent and beauty in people is lost behind this flailing about in life trying to exert pressure in the least effective way possible, through manipulating people and situations. If we put just half of that energy into cultivating our personal brilliance humanity could be amazing.

    We do not fail in life because we lack the potential, we fail in life because we do not understand where our greatest leverage really lies. We have made this thing called 'society' all important but what is it? It's a systematic approach to programming individuals into conformity. Some are better at that than others, but deep down we all resent the need to hide little bits of ourselves away because others will not approve. Society does not exalt the brilliance of the individual, it exalts the idea of social acceptance. Gaining of that acceptance means being just like others, succeeding just enough but not too well, lest the tall poppies be cut down with a scythe. The social acceptance that gives people their security in life also becomes there constriction, what if they lose the approval and acceptance of others? What if they look foolish by attempting something others do not believe is possible?

    Sure some people transcend all of this and become the breakthrough genius of the day. But I think genius is extremely common, what is rare is the individual willing to risk it all to give birth to that which lies within them.
    You are poised on the edge of a great journey.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  8. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You are poised on the edge of a great journey.
    Thanks...I guess. Although I wont pretend to have any idea what you mean.

  9. #539
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    amargith;
    And, I'd crudely theorise that that is probably due to the unfair pressure that INTJs women have to put up with from society. The traditional areas in which a woman is supposed to take charge and the way in which she is supposed to...it's dying out but still relevant in our society.
    i know its a crude theory and all but I'm not sure I concur. I'm about as abberrant and socially unacceptable as they come. My wildly underdeveloped Fi means I'm still hostile at the world etc....

    So why would I feel compelled to pay any attention to societal demands on femalehood? Have I ever tried to conform to that role? Big heads up here is that I've been pissing people off since 1984. Disappointing society is what I do, so hosting parties and putting others at ease has never been something I've attempted let alone feel frustrated about. I have trouble paying attention to society nevermind understanding what it wants from me.

    Prior to this one job, I've worked in male dominated industries previously and had less trouble fitting in. Maybe its just because I'm too thick to see a put down when it comes but I didn't feel any kind of pressure to get back in the kitchen.

    My current job is one with all kinds of misogynistic overlays but honestly, the worst treatment comes from other women, not men. A woman who struggles coming to terms with her own fading star (even though the only place its fading is in her mind) is hideous to deal with. The midlife woman is hell in high heels. Sure some men are absolute dicks to me, but their brand of shittiness is fairly unsophisticated and easily shrugged off as ridiculous.

    So I do think the INTJ female is somewhat less likely to pay much attention to social expectations of women specifically. It would hit a more conformist type harder because she would more readily struggle with the need to be pleasing to society versus her own ambitions. As an INTJ I know how weird I am, other people show me this everyday, caring about feminine stereotypes is way down on my list of things to give a shit about.

  10. #540
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    i know its a crude theory and all but I'm not sure I concur. I'm about as abberrant and socially unacceptable as they come. My wildly underdeveloped Fi means I'm still hostile at the world etc....

    So why would I feel compelled to pay any attention to societal demands on femalehood? Have I ever tried to conform to that role? Big heads up here is that I've been pissing people off since 1984. Disappointing society is what I do, so hosting parties and putting others at ease has never been something I've attempted let alone feel frustrated about. I have trouble paying attention to society nevermind understanding what it wants from me.

    Prior to this one job, I've worked in male dominated industries previously and had less trouble fitting in. Maybe its just because I'm too thick to see a put down when it comes but I didn't feel any kind of pressure to get back in the kitchen.

    My current job is one with all kinds of misogynistic overlays but honestly, the worst treatment comes from other women, not men. A woman who struggles coming to terms with her own fading star (even though the only place its fading is in her mind) is hideous to deal with. The midlife woman is hell in high heels. Sure some men are absolute dicks to me, but their brand of shittiness is fairly unsophisticated and easily shrugged off as ridiculous.

    So I do think the INTJ female is somewhat less likely to pay much attention to social expectations of women specifically. It would hit a more conformist type harder because she would more readily struggle with the need to be pleasing to society versus her own ambitions. As an INTJ I know how weird I am, other people show me this everyday, caring about feminine stereotypes is way down on my list of things to give a shit about.
    I wonder what your perception is of ESFJs?

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