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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #511
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Ah ha, perfect, yes it is assuming those things to be true. However if these things are not what the INTJ cares about in the end...then the reasons "why other people hate INTJ's" are irrelevant.
    Not at all, if the INTJ is interested in self-development. Other people, even (perhaps especially) those who hate him/her, can provide valuable input that helps the INTJ see him/herself more clearly. Any changes made as a result, however, are not to please the other person, but rather to bring the INTJ closer to his/her own standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    But if you are saying it is unproductive, then to me that means that you are not aquiring favorable results from interactions. Which it kinda leads me to believe that you may not be going into each interaction with the goal to gain perspective. Which if that's so, in that case, it's ignoring the fact that every person has something to offer. That's where the productivity comes in. If you can catch a glimpse of what the person's strengths are, and those strengths just so happen to match up to whatever objective you're looking for at the time, then that interaction has been productive.


    Every interaction is productive anyways cause it's a chance to learn. Especially if it's an unpleasant interaction. They are THE most revealing, in that they show you your shadows.
    Yes to the highlighted. If they brought worthwhile results, I would have far more patience with them. Not everyone has something to offer me at the present time, any more than I might have something to offer them. And I don't need to keep repeating the same type of unpleasant interaction to learn the lesson it already might have provided the first few times. Enough is enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    If people are needed for things to happen, then socializing is expected. I agree, it's not a requirement. However it is expected, and in that way it's sort of like you either play by the rules, or you don't. When you play by the social rules, you can get places MUCH faster than if you didn't. Even as simple as at a line in the supermarket. If that cashier is having a bad day and you make them feel like crap because some social rule wasn't followed, you could end up there forever in that line.
    Socializing is NOT necessary for a business transaction, and you can avoid it without making anyone "feel like crap". How? Just be courteous, transact your business, and move on. The rules say you do your job, earn your money, pay your way, do no harm, and help out when you can. None of this requires socializing either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    If you are looking to learn something from each interaction then maybe the interactions are not as unpleasant because they're productive. It all depends on where you want your energy to go. I think I lose energy when I have an unpleasant interaction, therefore I picked up some social rules, and try to treat each interaction with the expectation of learning something. And learning energizes me.
    I would like to learn something from each personal interaction, or even allow the other person to learn from me if they want, but will do my best to curtail or avoid interactions where I have nothing to gain or give.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  2. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    "INTJs do not deal with things in a logical way, going into the intellectual process of elucidation. They just catch an intuition, going round and round amplifying it, so that in the end we get a complete picture, but by intuitive means, not by logical means." - C.G. Jung, 1937


    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    "But instinct is something which transcends knowledge. We have, undoubtedly, certain finer fibers that enable us to perceive truths when logical deduction, or any other willful effort of the brain, is futile. Back in the deep recesses of the brain was the solution, but I could net yet give it outward expression. As I uttered these inspiring words the idea came like a flash of lightning and in an instant the truth was revealed. A thousand secrets of nature which I might have stumbled upon accidentally, I would have given for that one which I had wrested from her against all odds and at the peril of my existence. The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power." ~ Nikola Tesla (INTJ)
    Explain to me how INTJ's can do this

  3. #513
    How's that workin for ya? Array Urarienev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Not at all, if the INTJ is interested in self-development. Other people, even (perhaps especially) those who hate him/her, can provide valuable input that helps the INTJ see him/herself more clearly. Any changes made as a result, however, are not to please the other person, but rather to bring the INTJ closer to his/her own standards.
    I can understand this, because self-development is a big priority to me.

    But I think I personally have a different reason as to why I do it now. Emphasis on the word now. I used to think it was soley for myself until I learned that we are all one. And if you don't beleive that we're all one then that's exactly where your desire stops and my desire begins (which is kool either way, not saying it's wrong or anything. Just defining the difference.)

    I just think that I do all this stuff to be a better person and what is it all for if not to be able to be accepted by myself AND others...I think they're both equally important, cause my ideal world involves a sense of community where I'm allowed to be who I am and others are too, without a sense of rejection.

    Yes to the highlighted. If they brought worthwhile results, I would have far more patience with them. Not everyone has something to offer me at the present time, any more than I might have something to offer them. And I don't need to keep repeating the same type of unpleasant interaction to learn the lesson it already might have provided the first few times. Enough is enough.
    Yea, again I think this is where I just don't fundamentally agree. I think that I have something to offer everyone. I also think everyone has something to offer me. I am learning and experiencing all day long. Good and bad things. They both present ways to learn. And if we actually learn from problems, they go away. Meaning if we stop resisting the negative, it eventually fades away.


    Socializing is NOT necessary for a business transaction, and you can avoid it without making anyone "feel like crap". How? Just be courteous, transact your business, and move on. The rules say you do your job, earn your money, pay your way, do no harm, and help out when you can. None of this requires socializing either.
    The thing is, that people with Feeling functions first... it IS a requirement.

    Being courteous is a social rule. We have to learn how to act in society. For some, it's just easier and more natural and PREFERRED.

    I would like to learn something from each personal interaction, or even allow the other person to learn from me if they want, but will do my best to curtail or avoid interactions where I have nothing to gain or give.
    Yea, that all depends then on what you define as "something to gain" I guess.

    My goal is expand my consciousness, and to gain knowledge and experience. I can do that talking to people I don't like cause I can practice "being aware" and trying new things to see what works...

    I guess it's not for everyone.

  4. #514
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoCares View Post
    @Amargith,

    I choose to be solo in life because it's easier for me, not because I'm butthurt or too prideful to ask for help. As a socially orientated person you find people enlivening. I find them draining in every possible way. People take more from me than they ever give quite honestly. To watch another person make a hash of a job I can do blindfolded is painful and it takes more time and energy on my part to clean up after them than to just get the job done properly in the first place.

    I work in a people job and meet approx 300 new people a day. I took this job with the idea of developing my people skills and understanding others more. It was a test to see if all that 'you've gotta work with others' advice was really worthwhile. In 6 years of doing this I think I have a pretty good sample set to go from. From what I've experienced most people....

    - Dump their issues on you and try to make them your issues.
    - Fail to plan or provide for themselves and try to make that your issue.
    - Piss and moan like a 5yr old regardless of how old they really are as soon as they don't get their way.
    - Spend prodigious amounts of time trying to take chips off the self esteem of everyone around them so they can feel better about themselves.
    - Recruit others to their cause so they can oust whomever they see as an obstacle to getting their way.
    - Put enormous energy into excuses for why they cannot or should not be doing something.
    - Spend more time doing the above than getting anything useful done.


    I'm actually quite successful at this job, but I dont enjoy it. And I have never had such a low view of humanity as I have now. I have come to the conclusion that in the main my desire to be solo was a good choice and that I am not missing out. In my job the dominant personaity type is a socially orientated, empathic person. And on the whole I find these people put more time and energy into their personal hatreds and petty issues than in getting the job they are paid to do, done. I find it annoying and counter productive.

    Perhaps it would be helpful for society to accept that the solo person isn't a social reject in need of rehabilitation but that it can be a viable personal choice for people who do not receive much benefit from other people's company. I spend all day being diplomatic and understanding and coaxing goodwill out of reluctant individuals. I'm capable of being perfectly lovely and quite charming when it suits me. But I dont have to on here, what I project here is the frustrated and exhausted side of me venting. And this is how I feel most days I've had to endure an overload of other people.
    Most people?? That's a very negative view of humanity indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I'd be curious to hear if there are any INTJs who aren't also e5 who have this thing with needing independence going on.
    Yes. I have always had a very strong need for independence. For example, I have incredible memories of my first semester of college, mostly because I had freedom and independence. I also have very good memories of my first couple of years being employed and on my own, when I had absolutely nothing. To be on my own, self sufficient financially and living in my own place was thrilling (though I didn't like living alone the first year; I've always preferred having others around).

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  5. #515
    Alchemist of life Array Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I just think that I do all this stuff to be a better person and what is it all for if not to be able to be accepted by myself AND others...I think they're both equally important, cause my ideal world involves a sense of community where I'm allowed to be who I am and others are too, without a sense of rejection.
    If I have to change how I operate substantially, however, I am no longer being who I am, but rather trying to be who others want me to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Yea, again I think this is where I just don't fundamentally agree. I think that I have something to offer everyone. I also think everyone has something to offer me. I am learning and experiencing all day long. Good and bad things. They both present ways to learn. And if we actually learn from problems, they go away. Meaning if we stop resisting the negative, it eventually fades away.
    I probably have something to offer everyone, too, but most people won't realize or accept that. Unless I am going to force the issue, that means there is little value to our continued interaction. I would prefer to move on to someone I really can help, or learn from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Being courteous is a social rule. We have to learn how to act in society. For some, it's just easier and more natural and PREFERRED.
    Yes and no. Some people, perhaps the feelers you referenced, see courtesy as including a substantial amount of interpersonal give and take. To me that is not courtesy, it is intrusive, inefficient, even nosy. To me, courtesy involves respecting boundaries, avoiding insults, speaking plainly, and getting what you want without it being at someone else's expense.
    A cry of defiance, and not of fear,
    A voice in the darkness, a knock at the door, and a word that shall echo for evermore!
    For, borne on the night-wind of the Past, through all our history, to the last,
    In the hour of darkness and peril and need, the people will waken and listen to hear

    -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

  6. #516
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post

    My goal is expand my consciousness, and to gain knowledge and experience. I can do that talking to people I don't like cause I can practice "being aware" and trying new things to see what works...

    I guess it's not for everyone.
    I can probably count on one hand how many times I have tried or learned a new thing by talking to people (like or not) or even being around other people. Even if others are present, I still learn alone. I always do, I always will. You lead with feeling functions, I get that. I don't. Leading with feeling functions would get in the way of actually seeing what I'm looking at, why I'm learning or doing, even if it's another person. I'm in no way saying feeling is completely removed but it's not the primary, no matter what the situation.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #517
    Senior Member Array tinker683's Avatar
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    I don't hate them!!!

    ....but they can be intimidating.

    I have a romantic fantasy of catching the eye of a INTJ female. It would probably wind up being a very difficult relationship....but there is something very endearing about them
    "There is no such thing as spare time, no such thing as down time, no such thing as free time, there is only life time. Go."
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  8. #518
    wants Mifune clone minion Array Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes. I have always had a very strong need for independence. For example, I have incredible memories of my first semester of college, mostly because I had freedom and independence. I also have very good memories of my first couple of years being employed and on my own, when I had absolutely nothing. To be on my own, self sufficient financially and living in my own place was thrilling (though I didn't like living alone the first year; I've always preferred having others around).
    I probably should have more specific, or quoted to give that a context. I'd noticed the exchange between Amargith and Coriolis/WhoCares, and it made me wonder if INTJs who aren't e5 felt as strongly about it as Coriolis and WhoCares. (For example.)

    [Because of course there's going to be a need for independence.]
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  9. #519
    Moving to the BVI Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What the fuck happened to my post (#413) where I mentioned @anticlimatic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Z Buck McFate View Post
    I probably should have more specific, or quoted to give that a context. I'd noticed the exchange between Amargith and Coriolis/WhoCares, and it made me wonder if INTJs who aren't e5 felt as strongly about it as Coriolis and WhoCares. (For example.)

    [Because of course there's going to be a need for independence.]
    Oh no. I'm not like that at all. I like developing one on one connections with people. It's a big part of who I am. (if that's what you mean).

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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    I don't hate them!!!

    ....but they can be intimidating.

    I have a romantic fantasy of catching the eye of a INTJ female. It would probably wind up being a very difficult relationship....but there is something very endearing about them
    INTJ women are to independent and intense for my taste. I have a preference for the deep and reflective INTP women instead!

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    My favorite INTP girls on this forum are @palm and @Eruca!

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