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  1. #491
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    "Discovering I'm an INTJ" seems to have a similar effect in people as "discovering the writings of Ayn Rand."
    The person in my life who is most interested in Ayn Rand happens to be an ENFP.

    No shit.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #492
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The person in my life who is most interested in Ayn Rand happens to be an ENFP.

    No shit.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

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  3. #493
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    The person in my life who is most interested in Ayn Rand happens to be an ENFP.

    No shit.
    I think it's a Fi thing....

  4. #494
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    I think it's a Fi thing....
    More of an anti-Fe thing, I suspect.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #495
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    More of an anti-Fe thing, I suspect.
    What's the difference?

  6. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    What's the difference?
    Fe - “Go to the people. Live with them. Learn from them. Love them. Start with what they know. Build with what they have.
    Fi - But with the best leaders, when the work is done, the task accomplished, the people will say 'We have done this ourselves.”

  7. #497
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    (Reorganized to facilitate my response.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    YES, I know, you're capable of handling yourself, of handling anything that comes your way. That you don't feel the need to follow the hierarchy within the pack when you see no reason for it - in that I even join you - or that you have no time to waste on social dynamics as you have work to do...
    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You are vulnerable. Whether you like to hear it or not, you're *extremely* vulnerable. Because you do not do strength in numbers.And you *everytime* overestimate how much you can and should be able to handle, as your pride demands you should be able to handle anything life throws at you, no matter what. You punish yourself for failing to be Atlas and you rarely ask for help. And when you re forced to do so anyway, you're so pessimistic in trusting that the other person will actually provide it and be competent at it that it doesn't exactly inspire them to go out on a limb, for you. And it is why you will *always* be overshadowed by less devoted, less dedicated, less competent people and under appreciated in ways you do not deserve. Because those other people take the smart way instead of the hard way. They realise that standing together, forging those essential bonds you consider a waste of your time will get you *everywhere*.
    The two quotes above are contradictory. Either we are able to take care of ourselves and everything we take on, or we are not. We both know the reality of this. INTJs succeed in what we do take on because of how we operate, not in spite of it. Yes, we know our strengths and set goals and make plans with these in mind. We will also make sacrifices to reach our goals, sacrifices that you might not make, or even understand or approve of when we make them. If we looked for our strength in numbers, we would be playing from our weakest suit, and far less successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    What is the point of it all? The point of it all is to NOT have to stand alone. To have help and a safe haven to go to. To find for that matter people who understand and enjoy what you feel like rambling about, expressing and who in turn enrich your life with their quirks - if only for entertainment purposes. Hell, to just laugh off some of that stress you guys carry around.

    Sure, you don't *need* social interaction, friends, bonds, whatever. You also do not need mac and cheese, chocolate milk, fluffy pillows and cuddles, but ya know what? They enhance your life. Water and bread makes you survive, for sure. Life is still nicer with a *** twix bar in your hand and a person to share it with. Even for you guys.
    Well, I actually dislike mac and cheese, chocolate milk, and fluffy pillows. But the above is the best and perhaps the only reason for social interaction. Professional networking aside, we really don't need it, but our lives can be enriched by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And my INTJ is no **** different. He runs himself down, works 10+ hours a day at work, won't get his personnel to pick up the slack, does not sleep enough, and ends up doing *everything* himself. And when I show concern, he goes 'It's not a big deal, I'm fine!' *hides injured paw behind his back*

    It's like having an extra cat.
    This sounds just like me; but then my SO likes cats, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    As for the social thing. Mine is sp-sx and even *he* is starting to notice that in Norway, right now, we have no real friends. He has his work colleagues - who he doesn't trust further than he can throw them, and I have you guys. But our circle of friends which started out as MY circle of friends is back in Belgium. I deliberately didn't build one here as we re only to stay a few years here, but it affects us. He misses them, and so do I. It is *nice* to be able to have a group to call home, to get together with a bunch of people who will be there when life gets you down and who share some of your hobbies and hang out to do silly things. People who are *happy* to see you, who are willing to share your misery as well as your good fortune. But yes, those things need to be invested in and it is something he looks to me for, to do *for him*.
    Interesting. I have had the same thoughts at times. My SO and I have few friends as a couple also. When we have made an effort to engage more socially, however, the results have been a dreadful disappointment. It reminds me that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #498
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    What's the difference?

    Ti is as much or more anit-Fe than Fi.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #499
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The two quotes above are contradictory. Either we are able to take care of ourselves and everything we take on, or we are not. We both know the reality of this. INTJs succeed in what we do take on because of how we operate, not in spite of it. Yes, we know our strengths and set goals and make plans with these in mind. We will also make sacrifices to reach our goals, sacrifices that you might not make, or even understand or approve of when we make them. If we looked for our strength in numbers, we would be playing from our weakest suit, and far less successful.
    Not "contradictory", just opposite sides of the same coin. Being strong in one aspect makes you vulnerable in its opposite. Being strongly self-reliant makes you less able to take advantage of the strengths of working with others. Being very good at working with others means that if you cannot take advantage of others, you've not only lost that strength, but you haven't developed much in the way of self-reliance.

    For my part, while I don't try to be particularly good at working with others, I try to be marginally competent at it, so that when push comes to shove, I'm not totally lost.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  10. #500
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post


    The two quotes above are contradictory. Either we are able to take care of ourselves and everwith tthing we take on, or we are not. We both know the reality of this. INTJs succeed in what we do take on because of how we operate, not in spite of it. Yes, we know our strengths and set goals and make plans with these in mind. We will also make sacrifices to reach our goals, sacrifices that you might not make, or even understand or approve of when we make them. If we looked for our strength in numbers, we would be playing from our weakest suit, and far less successful.
    I think this is where I differ.

    Again I think it's because of experience.

    I dont think I would have believed someone 2 years ago if they said we are not just dependant or independant creatures, we are interdependent.

    Pure independace is an illusion. Same thing with pure dependance.

    In that way...yes it seems contradicting...but its because we live in a dualistic world. Where things do not soley live without another.

    I think I also believe that if u get all your success accomplished half way through your life and have no one to share it with then we have missed the point. Isnt that losing sight of the big picture?

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