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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #351
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    This assumes once again that the INTJ knows best where most often, the INTJ might know what's best for themselves but not necessarily for others. Consider how Fi and Se are the lowest function in the order.

    How could an INTJ know what's best for others, including emotionally best, when they have such difficulty with emotional, social and concrete signals from others since they're so inwardly focused, where their inner 'visions' dispose of what their inner world considers irrelevant?

    As with everything in life, there isn't just one approach even based on probabilities where when INTJs are inexperienced in life, their probability calcs won't include most of the necessary variables.
    If an INTJ starts trying to solve everyone else's social/relationship problems, go ahead and roll your eyes at him. If he's instead saying, "Dude, we have giant eagles! Who the fuck in their right mind would want to WALK to Mordor?!" then you might want to listen. If he says that we have giant eagles, you can bet there are giant eagles, even if you are absolutely sure that giant eagles are "impossible."
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    If he says that we have giant eagles, you can bet there are giant eagles, even if you are absolutely sure that giant eagles are "impossible."
    And back we go to where INTJs are 'right' which includes no attachment to reality, sets up the premise that there's only one way to handle situations which sources from the need for INTJs to ego-protect at any cost.
    Spin, spin, spin.

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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    And back we go to where INTJs are 'right' which includes no attachment to reality, sets up the premise that there's only one way to handle situations which sources from the need for INTJs to ego-protect at any cost.
    Spin, spin, spin.
    Psychoanalyzing any particular type as a class isn't very helpful except insofar as one might find patterns that aid one's own understanding of the human psyche overall. The flaws you point out as being particular to INTJs would appear to be ones that are generic to humanity as a whole (a need to be "right", lack of attachment to reality [yes, even among S types], ego protection).

    Where typology helps is to describe why and how INTJs might show these particular traits, which will also help determine where and when those traits might not be in play.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Why do people hate INTJs?

    They seem to be viewed as narcissistic elitists by many people of other types (or perhaps even by some within their own type), and I'm wondering how accurate these perceptions really may be, or why people actually develop them to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Psychoanalyzing any particular type as a class isn't very helpful except insofar as one might find patterns that aid one's own understanding of the human psyche overall. The flaws you point out as being particular to INTJs would appear to be ones that are generic to humanity as a whole (a need to be "right", lack of attachment to reality [yes, even among S types], ego protection).

    Where typology helps is to describe why and how INTJs might show these particular traits, which will also help determine where and when those traits might not be in play.
    Forgive me for adhering to the premise of the opening post.

    To use Freud's psychoanalytical triangle, INTJs have overdeveloped superegos and subsequently have underdeveloped IDs and balancing egos.

    The more INTJs mature, the more they realise that they have to live life, rather than allow fear of everything to stop them from doing so. Once again, risk/return calculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    My intuition is likely to be vastly superior to yours . . .
    My dog's better than your dog . . .
    The east and the west are mine, the north and the south are mine. All seems beautiful to me.
    — Walt Whitman

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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    The more INTJs mature, the more they realise that they have to live life, rather than allow fear of everything to stop them from doing so. Once again, risk/return calculation.
    This much is true.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    This much is true.
    This admittance, I can respect.

    But if you take the same model (fear of everything) and apply it to INTJ solutions for others, is it possible that there are more solutions than just the INTJ way?

    You don't have to answer me but do consider it.

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    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    This admittance, I can respect.

    But if you take the same model (fear of everything) and apply it to INTJ solutions for others, is it possible that there are more solutions than just the INTJ way?

    You don't have to answer me but do consider it.
    There are always more solutions than the "INTJ way" as you call it.

    The conflict comes in w/r to the INTJ seeing different problems than others, in general. In my example, I pointed out how people had good attitudes, were getting along, and generally, the social aspects of the workplace were fine. The people there were good at solving THOSE problems. They didn't SEE the other problems, so much as had jobs dedicated to putting out the fires caused by those problems that the INTJ saw.

    Having a bunch of firemen ready to put out the fires is definitely an alternative solution. So why does everyone get upset when the INTJ points out that the fires can be prevented? Is fire prevention an egocentric "INTJ way"?

    Is it perceived as egocentric because the INTJ is an ass, or is it perceived as egocentric because the problem the INTJ sees is invisible to everyone else, therefore the INTJ must be an ass for "ignoring reality" (fires "just happen"), "wanting his own way" (he's so sure about fire prevention), "inconsiderate of others' needs" (we shouldn't have to learn this complicated and pointless fire prevention stuff), and "invested in protecting his own ego" (the only possible reason he could be so insistent about fire prevention is that he cannot admit that he is wrong - fires need to be put out, not "prevented").

    I'm using "fire prevention" as an obvious example that anyone can see. The actual INTJ solution would be more esoteric, such as reworking business processes.

    I'm not so much disagreeing with you about your assessment of INTJs, as I am trying to refine it into more of a cause-and-effect model. I'm interested as much in "why" and "how" INTJs think about things differently, as I am in how to bridge the gap between what INTJs see and think vs the other types. The key is communication of these ideas between contexts. But yeah, a young INTJ is pretty much stuck saying, "Trust me. I know I'm right," which really doesn't go over very well.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    There are always more solutions than the "INTJ way" as you call it.
    Another admittance I can respect.

    Don't get me wrong. On average, I find INTJs to be an intelligent and interesting bunch. But what grates like dental planing is their need to always spin things in favour of ego protection and inflation.

    The conflict comes in w/r to the INTJ seeing different problems than others, in general. In my example, I pointed out how people had good attitudes, were getting along, and generally, the social aspects of the workplace were fine. The people there were good at solving THOSE problems. They didn't SEE the other problems, so much as had jobs dedicated to putting out the fires caused by those problems that the INTJ saw.

    Having a bunch of firemen ready to put out the fires is definitely an alternative solution. So why does everyone get upset when the INTJ points out that the fires can be prevented? Is fire prevention an egocentric "INTJ way"?

    Is it perceived as egocentric because the INTJ is an ass, or is it perceived as egocentric because the problem the INTJ sees is invisible to everyone else, therefore the INTJ must be an ass for "ignoring reality" (fires "just happen"), "wanting his own way" (he's so sure about fire prevention), "inconsiderate of others' needs" (we shouldn't have to learn this complicated and pointless fire prevention stuff), and "invested in protecting his own ego" (the only possible reason he could be so insistent about fire prevention is that he cannot admit that he is wrong - fires need to be put out, not "prevented").

    I'm using "fire prevention" as an obvious example that anyone can see.
    I don't disagree with any of this but will pose another consideration. When reality intrudes on ultimate solutions, can INTJs perceive the need to act? In your example, it would only be logical to put out the fires first, then work on prevention so that the home built isn't razed to the ground. INTJs tend to disregard fires and present future phoenix rising, idealistic solutions. There's no balance and no alignment with reality.

    I'm not so much disagreeing with you about your assessment of INTJs, as I am trying to refine it into more of a cause-and-effect model. I'm interested as much in "why" and "how" INTJs think about things differently, as I am in how to bridge the gap between what INTJs see and think vs the other types. The key is communication of these ideas between contexts. But yeah, a young INTJ is pretty much stuck saying, "Trust me. I know I'm right," which really doesn't go over very well.
    Refer to my above context shift which includes key data to action model that INTJs tend to disregard.

  10. #360
    Happy Dancer Array uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    Don't get me wrong. On average, I find INTJs to be an intelligent and interesting bunch. But what grates like dental planing is their need to always spin things in favour of ego protection and inflation.
    Are you talking about INTJs, or do you actually have a few real life people in mind? Also don't discount the possibility that such INTJs you might be dealing with are simply bored and saying things just to annoy you. Particularly on forums, there are those INTJs that are fairly laid back, and others which like to say things in such a way as to start fights and see what happens.

    I don't disagree with any of this but will pose another consideration. When reality intrudes on ultimate solutions, can INTJs perceive the need to act? In your example, it would only be logical to put out the fires first, then work on prevention so that the home built isn't razed to the ground. INTJs tend to disregard fires and present future phoenix rising, idealistic solutions. There's no balance and no alignment with reality.
    Of course, if there is a fire, you put it out. The INTJ gets upset when he points out the faulty electrical wiring that isn't up to code, and everyone else is like, "So? That's the way it has always been."

    If you're running into INTJs that are standing around saying, "I told you so," and not helping with putting out the fire, might I respectfully submit that maybe they aren't INTJs, but perhaps INTPs?
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

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