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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #301
    Administrator Array highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Can you explain the 4th point more?

    I often find myself getting so agitated on the inside about others repeating themselves...

    It really bothers me that they think I don't hear them. I hear everything. I just have my eye on the prize and if I have to put my pointer finger up or say hold on...I lose my thought. And have to start from the beginning again. I despise these types of situations at work. I am constantly telling people if I don't answer you... it's cause I'm in the middle of something. I will get back to you and look you in the eye in 5 mins. They don't seem to get it though, even though I have never said hold on and NOT gotten back to them...therefore disproving any sort of paranoia that I don't pay attention to them.. *eye twitches* I still feel like it's an insult to my intelligence that they get upset and repeat themselves just because I didn't stop everything that I'm doing to apply the proper social protocols immediately... -_-

    Do INTJ's not acknowledge ppl at all...? Or? idk do you have examples?
    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post

    I don't really think it's lack of openness. It's the perceived part that matters. I think it's lack of caring about social protocol.
    It is the social protocols that are a big part of the problem. When you don't engage in eye contact when they are talking, nod your head and say "uh-hu" or follow up with questions or comments on what the other person said - they don't think you're listening.

    Edit: I have gotten much, much better at these things over the years but it is learned behavior.

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  2. #302
    Senior Member Array Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post

    People dont like talking to a predator. It is a stupid thing to do. They might use what you say against you- especially if they seem to only need a little information and somehow magically get a hold of the rest. For that matter, even if youre secure enough that you can handle yourself, is not fun to endure that kind of conversation where you feel like the ant. Not to mention its a fucking useless convo as they refuse to share the info and make you feel like a moron in the process.
    If INTJs are such hellish types, why does the ENFP-INTJ fetish thread exist? Could one argue: those who have a preference for ENFP are masochistic?

    Furthermore, if one type of person 'makes' another type of person feel like a moron, you'd think they would stay as far away from them as possible. On the other hand, no one can make you feel like a moron—you have to give them permission.

    And finally, what is it with those who claim "authenticity" is at their core, but when it comes to having a preference for INTJ, those people are not permitted to be authentic? Frankly, that smacks of hypocrisy. Does it make sense to complain about hammers because they strike nails? It's what they're designed to do.

    Lack of information can get you killed.
    And deliberately withholding information can save your life.

    It's the difference between being invited to an audience with the Godfather, with you sitting down in front of him and him staring you down as he lays out how it's going to be - without informing you what he intends to do with you afterwards, and having a friendly chat with someone you just met who is smiling and inviting you to sit right next to her on a bench. You bet it is threatening and intimidating.
    One does not have to accept the invitation or even sit down. You have a choice.
    From this hour I ordain myself loos’d of limits and imaginary lines.

  3. #303
    Butterfly up. Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If INTJs are such hellish types, why does the ENFP-INTJ fetish thread exist? Could one argue: those who have a preference for ENFP are masochistic?
    Because INTJs aren't just NiTe. They have Fi. And because ENFPs are less...bothered by social norms and flex in order to indulge their curiosity as to the aberration in approach that an INTJ has compared to others.

    Iow, mine was an asshole and I was curious to find out why. Had he stayed an asshole though, he'dve suffered the same consequences he suffers from others as well with me. He didn't and I saw a glimpse of what was underneath. It was worth it to me to dig it out, be the one to flex on the social front, and give him the some leniency. In the end though, I had to install a quid pro quo system in order for us to keep talking, as he kept demanding - yes demanding - information on me, without ever being willing to share any on him. I couldve walked away but I explained him the inherent unfairness there, and he considered me worth the effort to accept the new rules of the quid pro quo system.

    How many times does an INTJ extend that kind of courtesy, do you think? And how many times does the other person not exactly feel it is their fucking job every gorram time to flex and facilitate the conversation?

    As for your masochistic comment - no, I don't think we are, we're just naturally adaptive to individual quirks coz it is part of what we re intrigued by. ENFPs too will eventually smack an INTJ that keeps treating them in that way. It's one thing to give the benefit of the doubt and invest in someone. It is another not to cut your losses. At some point, you either take the dive or we go our separate ways. Social bonds are give and take, not just a resource to deplete.

    Furthermore, if one type of person 'makes' another type of person feel like a moron, you'd think they would stay as far away from them as possible. On the other hand, no one can make you feel like a moron—you have to give them permission.
    The fact that INTJs often focus on the big picture and are rather aggressive in their way of going about obtaining the goal. Most people are...well, cooperative and therefore sensitive to that aggressive rallying of the troups to get the goal accomplished. Criticism is something that is taken on board, for the benefit of that same group, so you suck it up and try harder.

    In other words, it is not coz intjs aren't usually sensitive to that push and that group feel they get to consider that the standard that everyone should keep and shove everyone around without expecting to get flak for it. Sure, in some situations, that 'immunity' grants you certain perks. it also makes you miss out on a lot, and gets you in heaps of trouble other times. A cost benefit analysis once they are aware of this is something they should surely consider making.

    And finally, what is it with those who claim "authenticity" is at their core, but when it comes to having a preference for INTJ, those people are not permitted to be authentic? Frankly, that smacks of hypocrisy. Does it make sense to complain about hammers because they strike nails? It's what they're designed to do.
    Learn to differentiate between when your hammer attack is actually effective for the task at hand and when perhaps gloves are warranted. I struggled with this a long time as well, as I was developing Fi, but the truth is that while that authenticity is a wonderful thing - and something I treasure in my communications with INTJs, especially one on one, and even here, in this thread, coz lets face it, i am hammering those guys back right now - it just aint useful in mobilising and organising big groups of people.

    Due to the influx of people in a large group, there is no room for in depth authenticity. Much like Te cannot wait for Ti to figure out every little nook and cranny - as interesting and vital as it can be in the planning process-, Fe cannot wait for Fi to fully explore every nook and cranny of authenticity within each individuals soul. Not if they want to get the shit done that they are good at getting done.

    In short, I aint asking INTjs not to be themselves, I'm merely explaining to them how their inherent style might be perceived as threatening and intimidating, what causes it, and how it can be softened to get the results they might need to obtain in the social sphere. Nowhere do I say that they have to change who they are, I'm merely holding up a mirror and pointing out the things they were asking for. It is up to them to decide if it is worth learning *how* to address the issues I brought up in order to actually communicate their true self - coz lets face it, the perception of them being threatening predators is seriously wrong - better to the public, in a way that will cause less miscommunication.

    Some concrete workable examples are for instance:

    - Making an effort to pay attention and indicate attention and focus to the person you are talking to, instead of just the situation you re trying to address
    - Curbing their frustration at the requests for additional information and identifying what information the person in front of them actually needs to aid them optimally
    - Actively asking for feedback from the other person(s) in order to follow up on how the communication line is holding up.

    Note that I did not suggest the following:

    - Be able at all times to quantify the data Ni has provided and be capable of explaining this to people always, even when you feel it would be to the detriment of the situation in need of handling

    - Learn to use Fe, and do an indept study of social protocol

    - Fake liking others so they'll like you back, and wear a mask as to who you are and what yo ucan do to spare other people's egos.

    - Be a group animal like the rest of us.

    It is about optimising communication to efficiently address problems that may arise from your personal preferences in life while honouring those gifts by getting them the support and free reign that makes em blossom. And that should be right up to Te's alley.


    And deliberately withholding information can save your life.
    No doubt, but then don't expect the rest of the group to feel grateful for not bothering to create good will at all. This *IS* a choice you make and the consequences are fully yours. Iow, if you expect other people's cooperation, respect and willingness to give you the benefit of the doubt, you'd better be willing to share.

    One does not have to accept the invitation or even sit down. You have a choice.
    Frankly, it doesn't feel like it when you re put in that spot due to the urgency and importance they exude wrt addressing the situation.
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  4. #304
    The Memes Justify the End Array EcK's Avatar
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    Because people can recognize true evil ?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    My existing idea of ENFP-INTJ type relationships. Both seem to like the playful side of this

  6. #306
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    One of the problems with typology is that traits are inflated to unrealistic proportions in peoples minds, which results in an abstracted caricature that isn't very representative of actual people. People are more or less the same, at least similar, in reality as long as they're healthy whether or not they use Te or Fe or whatever to communicate with. It's only subtle, and it's not as if INTJs are some sort of evil race from a comic book, and the same goes for any other type.

  7. #307
    Senior Member Array Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Iow, mine was an asshole and I was curious to find out why.
    I figured as much.

    Another person coming online to address faceless individuals who they think have the same 'type' as their lover, or ex-lover, to avoid looking within for answers, as well as avoiding the individual who can shed the most light on the problem: the person you were actually involved with. When I hear that same ol' tune being played, I have little to no interest in the discussion.

    Peace out.
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    Unapologetic being Array Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhc View Post
    yes that exactly what i meant. people will always remain infinitely different to one another, and the only definite likeness one can ultimately find is in themselves. If everyone were to practice acceptance, and actually accept others for who they are, the infinitely different ideas brought forth by people from the infinite source of knowledge could then be utilised.

    or

    no idea is not worthy of attention or worthy of inattention, except the idea that thinks another idea is

    also

    ultimately, the only one that is actually capable of doing anything to one is one. or even if you hate another, you are hating yourself in that person or you are hating yourself or you hate what you see in that person as you hate that about yourself etc etc. all examples of flawed reasonings. you are everything, love it or hate it, an idea that you can debate on a humanly scale if you want.
    Right on

    But easier said than done ha ha. I find that I have to consciously remind myself of this still. I am hoping one day I don't have to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    It is the social protocols that are a big part of the problem. When you don't engage in eye contact when they are talking, nod your head and say "uh-hu" or follow up with questions or comments on what the other person said - they don't think you're listening.

    Edit: I have gotten much, much better at these things over the years but it is learned behavior.
    To follow the example I gave....what would you say that you would do in a situation that you got interrupted by someone when you were deep in the middle of solving a pretty heavy problem? I would like to be able to learn a behavior that could maybe help aid the other person in understanding that I acknowledge them, but one in that I don't completely lose my thought.

    Or maybe Ni doms don't lose their thought as much as Ni aux?

    *****

    @Jaguar Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you've said, but I didn't think Amargith was giving her opinion on INTJ's. I thought she was simply saying why others are intimidated by them based on her exposure to an INTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post

    Due to the influx of people in a large group, there is no room for in depth authenticity. Much like Te cannot wait for Ti to figure out every little nook and cranny - as interesting and vital as it can be in the planning process-, Fe cannot wait for Fi to fully explore every nook and cranny of authenticity within each individuals soul. Not if they want to get the shit done that they are good at getting done.
    THANK YOU! Wow. I kinda get Ti now.

    Holy heart attack batman! That example really explains a convincing argument as to why someone should like Ti as it is compared to Fi as THAT is compared to Fe. So it's only because I can understand Fe in that it is similar to Te that I'm getting the gist of Ti. lol phew.

    Some concrete workable examples are for instance:

    - Making an effort to pay attention and indicate attention and focus to the person you are talking to, instead of just the situation you re trying to address
    That's difficult. Especially if you never see that the other person that you're doing all this for, doesn't reciprocate the favor once in a while. You lose faith in people after a while. It's like I can give you my energy by showing that I'm paying attention to your needs, but they can't once in a while care about the task at hand. I find that lack of reciprocation...frustrating and demotivating. (I think I have now entered into the realm of "trying to control others" so I'll stop, and let you know I'm taking notes )

    - Curbing their frustration at the requests for additional information and identifying what information the person in front of them actually needs to aid them optimally

    - Actively asking for feedback from the other person(s) in order to follow up on how the communication line is holding up.
    Ok girly now you're just asking too much ha ha j/k j/k :P

    No doubt, but then don't expect the rest of the group to feel grateful for not bothering to create good will at all. This *IS* a choice you make and the consequences are fully yours. Iow, if you expect other people's cooperation, respect and willingness to give you the benefit of the doubt, you'd better be willing to share.
    Yea. I'm getting that.

  9. #309
    Butterfly up. Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    I figured as much.

    Another person coming online to address faceless individuals who they think have the same 'type' as their lover, or ex-lover, to avoid looking within for answers, as well as avoiding the individual who can shed the most light on the problem: the person you were actually involved with. When I hear that same ol' tune being played, I have little to no interest in the discussion.

    Peace out.
    ...

    It was an example. Of over a decade ago. One i never needed any answers on as i loved him for it. And still do. And if you by now still believe that i avoid looking within...well lets just say i typically get acusedof the opposite so that is a new one on me. And a lame ass excuse to dismiss everything i contributed, i might add. But surely your prerogative.

    I answered a question. Maybe i shouldnt have
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    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    it's hug time.

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