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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #21
    ¤ Array Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @Zarathustra

    My thoughts haven't changed in months. These are the same things I've been expressing for some time, perhaps you have simply had time to understand why you don't like it.
    Yes, or I don't read all of your posts, but now have ran into enough of them to see how dumb your views are.

    Or perhaps you just better expressed their stupidity in that series of posts.

    Either way, they demonstrate a very weak understanding of typology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Everything that's wrong with INTJs (some INTJs, not all-- maybe most, who knows-- either way depends on the person) comes from that goddamn tert Fi. Present an INTJ with information that doesn't quite line up with their Te worldview, and the tert Fi generator kicks in automatically to explode with so much self righteous indignation and sarcastic contempt that it feels like you just broke open a pinata full of thirteen year old girls. All that cold logic and reason and desire to better oneself goes completely out the window if whatever they are presented with contradicts one of their Fi values, regardless of how rationally constructed that value happens to be. This is where a lot of their perceived stereotypical narcissism comes from, and the biggest area of weakness in most INTJs, IMO.

    The ones I know that are able to better deal with this aspect of their MBTI are solid individuals, though. They are a very thin minority, however.
    The same thing as you mentioned in the bolded could also apply to INTPs in regards to the correctness of our logical systems, as most do indeed seem to get trapped under the idea that their particular methods of reasoning are the only perspective to think from. Perhaps they aren't as arrogant in comparison to many supposed INTJs, but they could be just as much if not more closed-minded.

    Still, I actually made a very good argument the other day about how INTPs can come in both closed-minded and open-minded varieties (or perhaps a mixture of both in various areas, as you can see in my below quotes:

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I can't tell whether @Salomé is more boxed or @Zarathustra is more arrogant, but clearly INTPs have egos in regards to their logic, and INTJs have egos in regards to their perceptions (and perhaps rightfully so to an extent; INTPs are after all very logical, and INTJs very perceptive).

    I'm going to speculate that in regards to INTPs and INTJs, the INTJs overall are more open-minded, and the most closed-minded person of the 2 will be an INTP, but the most open-minded person of them all I would actually guess to be an INTP as well.

    I say this because powerful reasoning directed towards exploring endless contingencies can really expand our horizons, but powerful reasoning directed towards justifying subjective systems could really get us trapped. INTPs have the most potential in my opinion to go either of those 2 ways.

    If we take 2 people very commonly typed as INTP like say, Albert Einstein and Gottfried Leibniz, we can see this exact same phenomenon I outlined; Einstein only accepted what fit his own internal constructions, whereas Leibniz was boundlessly curious about everything and developed a highly holistic worldview in a glorious attempt to completely understand the universe. This metaphysics was way ahead of its time, perhaps rivaled only by Giordano Bruno's cosmology, that and perhaps the philosophy of Nietzsche.

    I think I just made a very solid argument here for the above points, and I'm completely open for counter-arguments; I actually love good challenges!
    The dangers of "privilege".

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Just because I say something doesn't mean I believe its correctness to be complete, nor does it mean I understand the basic foundations of Typology. Still, to learn, we just have to keep on talking. The evidence for this is simple: when ancient societies began using advanced forms of communication, like writing, human development went skyrocketing exponentially through the roof. It's only logical then that if we continue to shine forth our presentations, no matter how fallible they may be in nature, our overall levels of reasoning and enlightenment will be better refined.
    The dangers of "privilege".

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    If he actually had the time to back up his statements, like he does when arguing with various other members, we could take his criticisms against your competence in Typology more seriously, but apparently, his ego says it isn't worth the effort. That's actually pretty good evidence in favor of why people might hate INTJs in relation to being narcissistic.

    But still, this is only speculation on my part; whether or not that's how Zara really feels about this remains a mystery, at least until if and when he actually decides to elucidate what's "wrong" with your reasoning.
    No, that's about right.

    I don't have time to explicitly lay out why every inaccurate thought/claim is wrong.

    If calling out its stupidity is all I have time for, then that is what I'll do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No, that's about right.

    I don't have time to explicitly lay out why every inaccurate thought/claim is wrong.

    If calling out its stupidity is all I have time for, then that is what I'll do.
    Would you welcome the same treatment?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    No, that's about right.

    I don't have time to explicitly lay out why every inaccurate thought/claim is wrong.

    If calling out its stupidity is all I have time for, then that is what I'll do.
    Please, when you get a chance, address my concerns. I would like to expand upon what I know.

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    Te can come across as assuming the person they are talking to doesn't know the things they know. This can appear condescending. The fact that you know something doesn't mean other people don't know it too.

    The thing that bothers me the most is lack of explanation. This is supremely arrogant, because you're invalidating the other person's reasoning process and telling them to ignore it. Facts aren't just facts; they need rational structure to tie them together. You can throw fifteen facts together and they won't mean anything without something coherently linking them. If I disagree with you and that's that, you don't have a dialogue, and neither person learns anything. If you disagree with my reasoning and provide no explanation, I have no reason to change my mind. It's counterproductive behavior all around.

    There are a few INTJ's on here I really like, who don't have these tendencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/
    Some INTJs are not open to changing their mind at all, and new information or reasoning or experiences can't possibly convince them. They'll to you you're wrong, without actually refuting anything you've said. They have a Fi conviction (which can be less cuddly than that of the aux or dom Fi types), supported by Ni, and that's all that matters. And it's not that hard for me to form a conceptual link between that and the, um, denizens of that particularly internet community.

    Others seem to be able to more adaptable, and more open to learning new things. They view discussions as tools for expanding understanding and gaining fresh insights, rather than a competition or an attempt to prove personal specialness. Those INTJs are awesome, and I'm glad they are around.

    I think Ni can be a really cool function, but it has to be connected with the outside world. Maybe that's true for all of the introverted functions, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Te can come across as assuming the person they are talking to doesn't know the things they know. This can appear condescending. The fact that you know something doesn't mean other people don't know it too.
    I'm completely fine with people stating the obvious, just to make things more clear. Other people though who are more worried about respect for their intelligence, along with having a dislike for details may think differently.

    The thing that bothers me the most is lack of explanation. This is supremely arrogant, because you're invalidating the other person's reasoning process and telling them to ignore it. Facts aren't just facts; they need rational structure to tie them together. You can throw fifteen facts together and they won't mean anything without something coherently linking them. If I disagree with you and that's that, you don't have a dialogue, and neither person learns anything. If you disagree with my reasoning and provide no explanation, I have no reason to change my mind. It's counterproductive behavior all around.
    This idea can be explained quite simply with the anology of legos; the pieces by themselves aren't worth too much, but if you can put them all together into a construct, then they become something.

    There are a few INTJ's on here I really like, who don't have these tendencies.
    Who in particular do you have in mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Because people are INTPs.
    Do you think then that INTP is the type which "hates" (conflicts with) INTJ's the most?

    I know Ti and Te clash quite a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Facts aren't just facts; they need rational structure to tie them together. You can throw fifteen facts together and they won't mean anything without something coherently linking them. If I disagree with you and that's that, you don't have a dialogue, and neither person learns anything. If you disagree with my reasoning and provide no explanation, I have no reason to change my mind. It's counterproductive behavior all around.
    Agreed.... this is something that some INTJs do that bugs me. Because, like, if I was intelligent, I should have understood whatever they said without an explanation. That's not gonna fly with me, baby. This cat don't roll that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Do you think then that INTP is the type which "hates" (conflicts with) INTJ's the most?

    I know Ti and Te clash quite a bit.
    I don't even know if it's Te as much as it is Fi.

    Again, though, there are a lot of INTJs here I really like.
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