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  1. #211
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    Then you must think I'am an ISTP, INTJ, ENTP, INFJ, or ENFP, with the probability being in that order.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...u-believe.html

  2. #212
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Actually, I just made that idiot comment to jumpstart this thread back up.
    Well in that case here

    Even Jung said that Ni is a very important funciton...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_7DpbJ1xFg

    if you wanna skip to 4:25
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Well in that case here

    Even Jung said that Ni is a very important funciton...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_7DpbJ1xFg

    if you wanna skip to 4:25
    "Sometimes, you succeed in finding out... but.... more often you don't."

    Very interesting, Jung.

  4. #214
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    "Sometimes, you succeed in finding out... but.... more often you don't."

    Very interesting, Jung.
    He is saying sometimes you succeed in finding out where Ni's results comes from, but most often you don't. Then he goes on to say that the sensor cannot always tell by sense perceptions what is going to happen. That's why Ni is important. Did you get to that part? 4:31?

    I'm not disagreeing that Ni is aprior knowledge...I agree with that ...and so does Jung....that is what your quote is referring to...

    First tho...I'm going to define a priori knowlegde : reasoning or knowledge that proceeds from theoretical deduction

    Second I'm going to define deduction: the inference of particular instances by reference to a general law or principle.

    Third I'm going to define infer: conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning

    So it's inferring things from principles already known. If you're definition of a priori knowledge is any different from the way I've defined it, then I don't agree with you about apriori knowledge.

    This guy explains it best I think, go to 14:14

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT1HNk4eR4w

    Anyways, I think that even if we don't like people...or thier bad behaviors and all that jazz... true transformation cannot come about if we don't accept it. That's the first step. (Carl said that too "We cannot change anything, unless we accept it")

    I don't really think I have anymore thoughts on the subject.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    He is saying sometimes you succeed in finding out where Ni's results comes from, but most often you don't. Then he goes on to say that the sensor cannot always tell by sense perceptions what is going to happen. That's why Ni is important. Did you get to that part? 4:31?

    I'm not disagreeing that Ni is aprior knowledge...I agree with that ...and so does Jung....that is what your quote is referring to...

    First tho...I'm going to define a priori knowlegde : reasoning or knowledge that proceeds from theoretical deduction

    Second I'm going to define deduction: the inference of particular instances by reference to a general law or principle.

    Third I'm going to define infer: conclude (information) from evidence and reasoning

    So it's inferring things from principles already known. If you're definition of a priori knowledge is any different from the way I've defined it, then I don't agree with you about apriori knowledge.

    This guy explains it best I think, go to 14:14

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT1HNk4eR4w
    Yes, I watched the video very attentively. This stuff is my intellectual lifeblood at the moment. Watching just now, he says, "Of course, they felt attraction" regarding the couple in the analogy. I find this interesting and I missed it the first time.

    I find it funny the gentleman in the video (NFGeeks) uses Einstein as an example for priori knowledge, because I think Einstein's critical flaw to understanding the universe was accepting space-time linked in such a fashion to the point of vehement opposition towards the shifting scientific interest in quantum mechanics. To him, his God - the god in his mind, pure geometry - was destroyed by the concept of a digital universe. It is an example of how priori reasoning taints evidence, how it subverts the actuality of experiential existence. I can't even truly accept the Uncertainty Principle on grounds that I feel establishing a limit to the universe is habitually pre-modern in scope.

    Back to Jung, I find it coincidental he seems to be speaking of a duality similar to the Uncertainty Principle - that by perfectly knowing the position of things, you lose the velocity, and by knowing the velocity of things, you lose their position. While that may work in particle physics, I fail to see how it applies on a Newtonian plane. If there were a rhyme or reason to fish jumping out of water, the advantage would plainly lie in the person who has observed frequency and causation over the person that can simply profess some inherent knowledge. I find this analogy from Jung kind of silly, but of course, it is just an analogy. A better story - I interviewed for a company and stopped by my friend's house afterwards. His wife began to tell me, though she had never heard of this specific company in the past, what the company does. Many things she had to say were objectively untrue, me having just sat with a representative for two hours prior. This is an intuitive type.

    I don't think intuition itself is bad. You mentioned in your last post about Kahneman finding intuition critical to existence, and it is - in its guided, educated form (I think this is Jung's opinion, too, regarding why he necessitates Ni.) Having good intuitive properties does not equate to being an intuitor (another fallacy I see often, people typed as sensors for bad use of intuition.)

    Did you know Buddha thought the realm of ideas was an extension of sense? The mind is explicitly reflected in our physical form. I simply find it interesting, and thought you might, too.

    Anyways, I think that even if we don't like people...or thier bad behaviors and all that jazz... true transformation cannot come about if we don't accept it. That's the first step. (Carl said that too "We cannot change anything, unless we accept it")

    I don't really think I have anymore thoughts on the subject.
    I accepted this facet of the human condition (not excluding myself) long ago, well before my knowledge of modern typology.

  6. #216
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Then you must think I'am an ISTP, INTJ, ENTP, INFJ, or ENFP, with the probability being in that order.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...u-believe.html
    I seriously wouldnt wonder if you were an ISFP who for some reason has fixated on your tert Ni. I can say that ENTP you are not, nor an INTP and i really dont think INFJ or ENFP either.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  7. #217
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Yes, I watched the video very attentively. This stuff is my intellectual lifeblood at the moment. Watching just now, he says, "Of course, they felt attraction" regarding the couple in the analogy. I find this interesting and I missed it the first time.


    I find it funny the gentleman in the video (NFGeeks) uses Einstein as an example for priori knowledge, because I think Einstein's critical flaw to understanding the universe was accepting space-time linked in such a fashion to the point of vehement opposition towards the shifting scientific interest in quantum mechanics. To him, his God - the god in his mind, pure geometry - was destroyed by the concept of a digital universe. It is an example of how priori reasoning taints evidence, how it subverts the actuality of experiential existence. I can't even truly accept the Uncertainty Principle on grounds that I feel establishing a limit to the universe is habitually pre-modern in scope.
    Hmm, I have failed to find it in the video...womp womp. So no comment as of yet...other than...I thought that Einstein used Ne not Ni. Thus making him more inclined to posteriori knowledge. I could be wrong. I don't know much about Einstein, the man, in particular.

    Back to Jung, I find it coincidental he seems to be speaking of a duality similar to the Uncertainty Principle - that by perfectly knowing the position of things, you lose the velocity, and by knowing the velocity of things, you lose their position. While that may work in particle physics, I fail to see how it applies on a Newtonian plane. If there were a rhyme or reason to fish jumping out of water, the advantage would plainly lie in the person who has observed frequency and causation over the person that can simply profess some inherent knowledge. I find this analogy from Jung kind of silly, but of course, it is just an analogy. A better story - I interviewed for a company and stopped by my friend's house afterwards. His wife began to tell me, though she had never heard of this specific company in the past, what the company does. Many things she had to say were objectively untrue, me having just sat with a representative for two hours prior. This is an intuitive type.
    *fans herself*

    Phew

    Now, how did you know that talking about the Uncertainty Principle gets this girl all worked up?

    I have very different opinions on this subject. lol

    I see that you have a fundamentally different perspective all together than I do. Which I accept, but I regret to inform you that my dreams of you and me growing old together, have officially been shattered

    As I see you think it PUTS limits on the universe...that cuts deep, my man, deep.

    *broken heart*

    I don't think intuition itself is bad. You mentioned in your last post about Kahneman finding intuition critical to existence, and it is - in its guided, educated form (I think this is Jung's opinion, too, regarding why he necessitates Ni.) Having good intuitive properties does not equate to being an intuitor (another fallacy I see often, people typed as sensors for bad use of intuition.)

    Did you know Buddha thought the realm of ideas was an extension of sense? The mind is explicitly reflected in our physical form. I simply find it interesting, and thought you might, too.

    I accepted this facet of the human condition (not excluding myself) long ago, well before my knowledge of modern typology.
    I think balance is what Kahneman was getting to. A balance between the conscious and unconscious.

    I beleive that our outer world is a direct reflection of our inner world, yes. And I do find it interesting.



    I think that you have made a point that I have considered: That Ni needs to be guided towards positive aspects of life. (Otherwise the results can be seen as transgressions, as the website you've mentioned suggests)

    I can say from my own experience, I grew up in a very negative environment. It was racist/homophobic as all holy hell. And it took me a long time to not think of people as just a stereotype.

    After I: moved out on my own, got my first real job, and found out that my 2 best friends were gay, I no longer could use my environment as an excuse to be a harsh person. So I stopped using derogatory words and thinking that way.

    In this experience I can see how Ni can be led astray. (Very astray) But I can also see the amount of change and positivity it can bring to the world when in a positive state of mind. (I have made a 180)


    I love both Se and Ni for very different reasons. I think they are equal, just in different abilities.

    Someone with Se can be stuck in a rut and you may never see them change. Which causes inertia.

    On the other hand Se causes action if it's going in the right direction.

    It just depends on how the person's outlook is.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  8. #218
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    Coming off as condescending, when I was merely explaining for the sake of explaining and expanding on things. I'm not assuming anything. I don't mind hearing the opinion of others. I do lack tact. The social field is a mine field for me. I tend to objectify everything and this seems to neglect the feelers out there when something could be seen as sensitive. I simply bulldoze over it.

    I don't get along with INFJ or ESFJ in general. Statistically speaking ESFJs are popular and running into them is unavoidable.

  9. #219
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    But seriously, INTP forum is a hell of a lot worse; they banned me after 20 minutes!

    It's a terrible feeling, being rejected and shunned by your own kind.
    LOL. Not sure if you're joking, but when I first saw your delusional INTP self-typing my first thought was "you wouldn't last 20 mins on INTPC".

  10. #220
    Senior Member Stigmata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensEye View Post
    LOL. Not sure if you're joking, but when I first saw your delusional INTP self-typing my first thought was "you wouldn't last 20 mins on INTPC".
    Geez, this makes INTPc sound like the half-hour recess period at an elementary school located in a predominantly low-income suburb of Baltimore.

    Sadly, that description isn't entirely inaccurate.

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