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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #11
    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Depends on the INTJ. There are some that I think are awesome, and some that just kind of make me roll my eyes. Oh, and I like the OP... he doesn't actually make me roll his eyes, even if I can't always follow his introverted intuition, which I think is pretty strong.
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    Senior Member Array Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Because people are INTPs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Because people are INTPs.
    Keeping things on topic is for squares, man. BUCK THE SYSTEM. KONY 2016.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    The only real defense I could posit against it is that some anti-INTJ fringe group conducted poll fraud. I probably have good arguments for anything else that could be construed (yes, I think about it a lot).

    Pardon my abstraction from most outlets of the theory, but Se and Ni are two theoretical poles against each other - the best analogous expression I've been able to come up with is that Se is environmental and Ni is egotistical. So while extraverted sensors look for external factors to evidence beliefs and reasoning, Ni types rely on their intuitive (re: unevidenced) perceptions of existence. You can see how Se types are primed for freshly rationalizing a situation while Ni types will be stuck in an ideological rut, running countercurrent to your prior statement.
    Hmmm. I don't disagreeing that going off of a prior knowlegde can seem egotistical to some.

    The external data I was referring to was the Te that INTJ's have.

    I pretty much agree with everything Ene said though.

    Only because I know what it's like to want to improve yourself if something's important to you, and I have seen it happen in NTJ's. And done it.

    Having a lack of Ti/Fe would probably be the reason they would be responsible for many transgressions though. Ti being able to have insight, and Fe caring about others as a way to care about themselves.

    Any unhealthiness shown in type is mostly because the person's not incorporating their auxillary function in their lives as much as they should be.
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    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Everything that's wrong with INTJs (some INTJs, not all-- maybe most, who knows-- either way depends on the person) comes from that goddamn tert Fi. Present an INTJ with information that doesn't quite line up with their Te worldview, and the tert Fi generator kicks in automatically to explode with so much self righteous indignation and sarcastic contempt that it feels like you just broke open a pinata full of thirteen year old girls. All that cold logic and reason and desire to better oneself goes completely out the window if whatever they are presented with contradicts one of their Fi values, regardless of how rationally constructed that value happens to be. This is where a lot of their perceived stereotypical narcissism comes from, and the biggest area of weakness in most INTJs, IMO.

    The ones I know that are able to better deal with this aspect of their MBTI are solid individuals, though. They are a very thin minority, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    Hmmm. I don't disagreeing that going off of a prior knowlegde can seem egotistical to some.
    I'm probably not using the right word, or at least, there's a better word for it. When I say "ego" I mean the psyche, so if it is "egotistical", its origins are from within - directly contrasted against origins supported by an environment. A priori reasoning has evidence withdrawn from the equation, therefore, introverted intuition is the purest theoretical form of ego regarding personality.

    The external data I was referring to was the Te that INTJ's have.
    The thing about this is that if you use your reasoning, almost every type will be at the very least equally capable in this regard, giving INTJ's no real advantage in terms of reconciling beliefs to existence. Even ISFP's would be better learners, with auxiliary Se (Se is better than Te, 'tis true, though they are notably similar in scope). Two exclusions might be xNxP's, with subjectively-oriented functions in both dom and aux slots, but I've only thought about that lightly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Ni's primary attribute is that of a priori knowledge.

    There is no reasoning that can confict with a belief self-evident. It is a supremely annoying state of human existence.

    You're off about the evidence thing, @Inari Love. That's Se's domain.
    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I'm not fond of it much at all. I find it responsible for many transgressions against humanity as a species. Take this poll, for example - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t296002/

    The only real defense I could posit against it is that some anti-INTJ fringe group conducted poll fraud. I probably have good arguments for anything else that could be construed (yes, I think about it a lot).

    Pardon my abstraction from most outlets of the theory, but Se and Ni are two theoretical poles against each other - the best analogous expression I've been able to come up with is that Se is environmental and Ni is egotistical. So while extraverted sensors look for external factors to evidence beliefs and reasoning, Ni types rely on their intuitive (re: unevidenced) perceptions of existence. You can see how Se types are primed for freshly rationalizing a situation while Ni types will be stuck in an ideological rut, running countercurrent to your prior statement.
    Your thoughts on typology are getting dumber by the day.

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I'm probably not using the right word, or at least, there's a better word for it. When I say "ego" I mean the psyche, so if it is "egotistical", its origins are from within - directly contrasted against origins supported by an environment. A priori reasoning has evidence withdrawn from the equation, therefore, introverted intuition is the purest theoretical form of ego regarding personality.

    The thing about this is that if you use your reasoning, almost every type will be at the very least equally capable in this regard, giving INTJ's no real advantage in terms of reconciling beliefs to existence. Even ISFP's would be better learners, with auxiliary Se (Se is better than Te, 'tis true, though they are notably similar in scope). Two exclusions might be xNxP's, with subjectively-oriented functions in both dom and aux slots, but I've only thought about that lightly.
    Apparently it doesn't really matter how much or how little you've thought about a thing.

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    @Zarathustra

    My thoughts haven't changed in months. These are the same things I've been expressing for some time, perhaps you have simply had time to understand why you don't like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    People tend to dislike the damage that can be wrought by a narcissistic elite, it just so happens that a lot of people who identify as INTJ are narcissistic elitists.

    Not that this necessarily means that those people are correctly typed.
    assuming your talking in terms of narcissistic "egomaniac" character (which is not quite the same as NPD), i agree:

    - superficially there's the more obvious element of ego that can lead to mistyping - give a narcissist a list of possible self portraits and have "mastermind" in that list, it's not going to be difficult to guess.

    - as they go deeper into MBTI, a narcissist wouldn't necessarily be capable of easily telling the difference between what they learned once processing precedent information and their own insight into incoming information.

    it's worth mentioning that a lot of INTJs that genuinely express Ni by any definition of it don't seem to exhibit this sort of character at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    @Zarathustra

    My thoughts haven't changed in months. These are the same things I've been expressing for some time, perhaps you have simply had time to understand why you don't like it.
    If he actually had the time to back up his statements, like he does when arguing with various other members, we could take his criticisms against your competence in Typology more seriously, but apparently, his ego says it isn't worth the effort. That's actually pretty good evidence in favor of why people might hate INTJs in relation to being narcissistic.

    But still, this is only speculation on my part; whether or not that's how Zara really feels about this remains a mystery, at least until if and when he actually decides to elucidate what's "wrong" with your reasoning.

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