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  1. #111
    Freyja's Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    yes, perfect.

    (You have the interpreter gift too! )
    Why thank you. It is, after all, my trade.
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  2. #112
    Senior Member SensEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Perhaps. No amount of telling me I'm wrong or even insulting me will make me question my intelligence. Generally, only two things can make me do that: (1) recognizing I have made a serious mistake or error in judgment; and (2) meeting someone who really is much more intelligent than I am.
    I feel exactly the same way. I would mention in passing I think INTJs are the most likely to behave in this way though (i.e. question your intelligence and just tell you you're wrong when you don't agree with them). Those INTJs can get on your nerves. But those are the worst examples of their type.

    Overall though, I get along well with INTJ's. They share the NT rational approach to analyzing things, so generally they are fun to engage in discussions.

  3. #113

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    Why do people hate INTJs. . . does the punch line involve a chicken and a road?
    Think.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    On average, this is likely correct, but then Ni-doms are a small minority of the population. If practice makes perfect, or at least improvement, types who prefer Ni and use it more will become better at it than others. That tendency to stand by our intuitions comes from a track record of their being correct, especially in certain areas or circumstances. I can almost assign a confidence level to my Ni ideas, and usually come fairly close.
    interestingly enough, dario nardi's research observes that generally speaking, Ni doms seem to be the exception to the notion of practice makes perfect (in contrast with Si doms, for whom practice really does make perfect):

    (not sure if timed links work here - if it doesn't jump to 13 minutes in)


    ofcourse this is measured by practicing in relations to specific sorts of problems - that's not to say that Ni doms don't on some level practice Ni as a whole each time they are presented with a new problem (i'll expand on that bellow) - but Ni seems to not necessarily improve by practice so much as improve by the accumulation of connectable knowledge to the problem.

    the reason might be that unlike judging functions, much of the attributes we associate with the perception functions aren't quite related to specific areas in the brain so much as the general state from which the brain functions best (Se in the "bunny hop" mode, Ne in the "Christmas tree" mode, Ni in "the flow" mode, and please can someone come up with better names for this shit?), so the act of learning by practice - reinforced wiring in any particular area - isn't going to make the general state more easily accessible (this holds true to Si - even if improving via practice works for them to better grasp a type of problem, it isn't necessarily going to improve their general Si, or mine for that matter)... as a result, improving the abilities we associate with our perception functions isn't a matter of using them more so much as it is a matter of arming them with the mental resources they can best utilize.

  5. #115

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    IMO it seems like a good deal of INTJs are generally warmer to me. I don't know why though, maybe it's the tad bit more focus on thinking than on feeling that makes them seem more vibrant and raw than INFJs are. Which seem to be very composed in my experiences. It can create some very welcoming people in a way.

    I might just be kind of weird in this respect though.
    Phelgmatic-Jewish-Communist-Islamic-Transethnic-Asexual-National Socialist

  6. #116
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Most people hate what they don't understand.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth
    Likes Zarathustra liked this post

  7. #117
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Persons don't exist prior to cognitive preference. If they did, there'd be no need for typology, or possibly even psychology. But for "preference" to be capable of sustaining a person, it can't be whim or fancy. Preference must be as much about rejecting cognition as it is about specialising cognition. If it weren't, no stable, substantial person could evolve. Whim and fancy for which principle of organisation to follow would break apart the evolving mental structures, undermining the principles on which they exist.

    So, people bring unconscious bias to their gunfights maybe even more than they bring conscious concern. Conscious concern they can direct and develop; unconscious bias they can't even see. Meaning, it's not all and only about oneself, but one's self plays likely a big enough role in how and what you know that it might be worth looking in to.
    Glad I'm on the same page.

    *********

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post

    I'm almost surprised you aren't aware of how notoriously bad intuition is documented as being. Check out "Thinking Fast and Slow".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzJxAmJmj8w

    I watched the whole thing now, and boy am I glad I didn't waste my time reading something he wrote.

    He says people are doomed because they're risk adverse....but at the SAME time doomed because they're optimistic. -_-

    Makes no sense.

    *********


    does anyone know why I can't edit my post in this thread on pg.12? Is it TypoC or is it my computer?
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
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  8. #118
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It's hard for me to tell, because they say or do things that contradict that... but i can never know if that's just because people's beliefs don't always line up logically and make coherent sense.
    One thing often said about INTJs is that we have no problem making a good case for an opinion we don't actually hold. In fact, it can be good fun to do so, especially if we are speaking with someone who seems gullible, pretentious, obnoxious, or otherwise in need of being shown a thing or two. This is a good way to handle people like holocaust deniers. See also Amargith's comment below. She knows how it is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I guess for me, in this particular example, it is clear that an INTJ, unless incredibly immature and/or deluded, is not going to deny the Holocaust. That would be preposterous to Te. It's a well documented fact and no self-respecting INTJ would deny that in any serious fashion, unless he is capable and willing to back it up. Therefore, to utter such a thing to someone that does not know them very well, is proof of ulterior motive. Since INTJs rarely care for public opinion nor respect those that misinterpret who they are without first attempting to understand their pov (pesky tertiary Fi), they have no qualms trying to sell you such drivel and consider you the moron if you buy it hook, line and sinker.
    In the right circumstances this is incredibly gratifying -- and entertaining for those who recognize the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I think there's a bad generalization out there that only Ni-doms can be uber-mystical people.
    This would be a bad generalization. I have found INFPs, for instance, generally to be more mystical than INTJs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Please, the last thing I need to be doing is bowing down before those who have bigger brains than my own, simply because "I'm wrong and they're right".

    If you really think that it's wise for me to not question those higher up in the social-intellectual heirarchy, then you're just as foolish in certain ways as you may be wise and perceptive in other ones.

    Of course, you still will question yourself, and probably do a better job with it than at least 90% of people or so, but that doesn't mean you should have all confidence in certain things just because the evidence and your reasoning all integrated together supposedly make it a certainty.
    First, better intuition != bigger (or better) brains, just ones wired differently. I'm not telling you not to question, just not to let the legitimate questions keep you from trusting Ni judgment when push comes to shove. The highlighted is my point, and what I said before about assigning confidence levels shows that we don't assign "all confidence" to our intuitions, but we have a pretty good idea how reliable they are (or not) in a given instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    the reason might be that unlike judging functions, much of the attributes we associate with the perception functions aren't quite related to specific areas in the brain so much as the general state from which the brain functions best (Se in the "bunny hop" mode, Ne in the "Christmas tree" mode, Ni in "the flow" mode, and please can someone come up with better names for this shit?), so the act of learning by practice - reinforced wiring in any particular area - isn't going to make the general state more easily accessible (this holds true to Si - even if improving via practice works for them to better grasp a type of problem, it isn't necessarily going to improve their general Si, or mine for that matter)... as a result, improving the abilities we associate with our perception functions isn't a matter of using them more so much as it is a matter of arming them with the mental resources they can best utilize.
    It is almost the same thing, though, inasmuch as I described Ni as experiencing more than learning. The practice that improves Ni isn't deliberate, repetitive, even conscious practice. It is rather the unconscious daily application of the function to an ever increasing pool of experiences. The more it processes, and the more it has to process, the more accurate it becomes. I don't know if this is a correct explanation, but I do know my own intuition, or at least by justified confidence in it, has increased substantially since I was a teenager.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The more it processes, and the more it has to process, the more accurate it becomes. I don't know if this is a correct explanation, but I do know my own intuition, or at least by justified confidence in it, has increased substantially since I was a teenager.
    because you use it more or because you have more dots to connect? obviously based on what's being gathered the answer can be both as much as either one - but as i said, there's reason to think it might the later (evidence that Ni dom children do not get better at problem solving through traditional practice), and the reason this distinction is important to the discussion (with @superunknown) is because while making connections between those dots is Ni, the accumulation of those dot's in the first place might not be - at least going by Jung, the accumulation and attention towards self-evident and factual knowledge is largely attributed to Se.

  10. #120
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mane View Post
    interestingly enough, dario nardi's research observes that generally speaking, Ni doms seem to be the exception to the notion of practice makes perfect (in contrast with Si doms, for whom practice really does make perfect):

    (not sure if timed links work here - if it doesn't jump to 13 minutes in)


    ofcourse this is measured by practicing in relations to specific sorts of problems - that's not to say that Ni doms don't on some level practice Ni as a whole each time they are presented with a new problem (i'll expand on that bellow) - but Ni seems to not necessarily improve by practice so much as improve by the accumulation of connectable knowledge to the problem.

    the reason might be that unlike judging functions, much of the attributes we associate with the perception functions aren't quite related to specific areas in the brain so much as the general state from which the brain functions best (Se in the "bunny hop" mode, Ne in the "Christmas tree" mode, Ni in "the flow" mode, and please can someone come up with better names for this shit?), so the act of learning by practice - reinforced wiring in any particular area - isn't going to make the general state more easily accessible (this holds true to Si - even if improving via practice works for them to better grasp a type of problem, it isn't necessarily going to improve their general Si, or mine for that matter)... as a result, improving the abilities we associate with our perception functions isn't a matter of using them more so much as it is a matter of arming them with the mental resources they can best utilize.
    Yo homie, how dare you bring truth to the table!!! (j/k)

    This is kinda actually exciting, that they were able to use typology in a practical and tangible way.
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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