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Thread: Why do people hate INTJs?

  1. #101
    The Senate Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You are. And while Im capable of recognizing that, I also find that I lack the knowledge or natural inclinations or methods needed to 'handle' the way you prefer your emotions handled, which makes it hard to 'joke' with you guys

    For what it's worth, I'm no longer sure that I have that figured out, either.
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    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I use a lot of sarcasm on here.... do you pick up on that or not, or are you just constantly confused as to how much of a jackass as I am? In person it's probably more obvious.
    No, I get when you're joking. I think. You're pretty straightforward. Some INTP's are difficult to understand, though. Like Mal+. I think I get when he's joking some of the time, I just don't understand what the heck he's saying when he's not being entirely literal, so that makes me question it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    No, I get when you're joking. I think. You're pretty straightforward. Some INTP's are difficult to understand, though. Like Mal+. I think I get when he's joking some of the time, I just don't understand what the heck he's saying when he's not being entirely literal, so that makes me question it.
    I actually think @Mal+ is a very easy person, both in understanding his presented content, and even by interactive standards. He's good at phrasing things in ways that are light-hearted, yet also logical and well-reasoned, without any kind of blinding over-confidence behind it all. Of course, maybe that's just because I'm more similar to him than you are.

    If you want an example of a highly convoluted and confusing INTP who uses way too much subjective thinking in mind-blowingly (in the bad way) detailed fashion, we need look no further than at um, well, @INTP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    If you want an example of a highly convoluted and confusing INTP who uses way too much subjective thinking in mind-blowingly (in the bad way) detailed fashion, we need look no further than at um, well, @INTP.
    That's weird, I understand him pretty well.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I actually think @Mal+ is a very easy person, both in understanding his presented content, and even by interactive standards. He's good at phrasing things in ways that are light-hearted, yet also logical and well-reasoned, without any kind of blinding over-confidence behind it all. Of course, maybe that's just because I'm more similar to him than you are.

    If you want an example of a highly convoluted and confusing INTP who uses way too much subjective thinking in mind-blowingly (in the bad way) detailed fashion, we need look no further than at um, well, @INTP.
    I've made some adjustments to my online "presence" over the years...
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    I've made some adjustments to my online "presence" over the years...
    Ah, so are you implying that you used to act more like INTP (the member) acts?

    Whether yes or no, apparently you're either naturally more intelligible than he is and/or you've made better progress than he has.

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    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Ah, so are you implying that you used to act more like INTP (the member) acts?

    Whether yes or no, apparently you're either naturally more intelligible than he is and/or you've made better progress than he has.
    At one time I was the only Kantian on an Objectivist forum. Things could get pretty vicious, or I would write on and on and on...
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

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    I don't know too much about Kant, but from my understanding, he's made a pretty vast systemization of knowledge into many distinct definitions and categories.

    Sure, there may be a lot of structure to that kind of thinking, but it's also very solid and expansive.

    From my understanding, many INTJs are opposed to that kind of thinking, like it boxes them in or something.

    In my opinion though, it really makes the old boxes explode, and puts new ones in their place.

    We can illustrate this principle in elegant fashion with Newton's quote here (and yes, I know he's an INTJ [but the point I'm making remains]): You have to make the rules, not follow them.

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    Senior Member Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    I don't know too much about Kant, but from my understanding, he's made a pretty vast systemization of knowledge into many distinct definitions and categories.

    Sure, there may be a lot of structure to that kind of thinking, but it's also very solid and expansive.

    From my understanding, many INTJs are opposed to that kind of thinking, like it boxes them in or something.

    In my opinion though, it really makes the old boxes explode, and puts new ones in their place.

    We can illustrate this principle in elegant fashion with Newton's quote here (and yes, I know he's an INTJ [but the point I'm making remains]): You have to make the rules, not follow them.
    How Kantian!
    "But you forget that there is one value that is greater than all others: human freedom. Because no matter how perfectly you set the world up for humanity, they will always rebel simply to exert their own selves. You cannot win."

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    And, citizens, how are you thinking you're talking about a type other than your own? First and foremost here you are announcing your own preferences. And then making up, for the most part, bullshit about how other another type operates. These "insights" lack value until you determine where they came from. That means, you distinguish your type from the other types. You find out how you operate and what you want. You discover what unconscious horseshit you're piling on the table, and then perhaps you say why you're calling it lunch.


    ^knee-jerk "Fi"
    I mostly agree with what you're saying here (I think)

    But I am getting the impression that you're saying it's all, only about oneself?

    If that is what you mean, (which I mostly believe that everything in life that happens "to" someone, is simply a mirror/reflection of themselves) it seems as though you're speaking of independence.

    Are you?

    If so, aren't we all interconnected?


    [QUOTE=Zarathustra;2159192]@superunknown

    To try to equate Creationists with Ni users, if that's what you just did, is a dumb and false conflation, so that's your error in reasoning.

    Also, it is not simply a feedback loop if the NJ has removed themself from the infantile states of being and 1) started balancing their introversion and extroversion (for INJs, developing their aux Je function), and 2) recognized and severed their problematic relationship with their shadow, and learned the importance of assimilating/merging these functions into their consciousness (i.e., develop their tertiary and inferior Ji and Se functions). The better a job the NJ has done at these two things, the less the issues that you complain of will be present in them.[QUOTE]

    Yea I believe #1 and #2 are pretty necessary

    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    Creationists are like textbook Ni. Particularly the doomspeakers. If you don't see the correlation you've never read Jung or anything he based the S/N dichotomy off of.

    I'm almost surprised you aren't aware of how notoriously bad intuition is documented as being. Check out "Thinking Fast and Slow".
    I don't agree.

    One of the purposes of Ni is to take info in, and reference it with what has already happend, for the result of improvement.

    Ni is always evolving...which is different from Creationism. (kind opposite actually )

    ***

    And I am in the middle of a video now of Prof. Daniel Kahneman. He is expaining Ni mixed with Fi....

    He gives an example of the halo effect....that's Fi

    Alone Ni only has associative coherence. Not emotional.

    This is what I mean, by Te has to be developed. To evaluate the associations made by Ni.

    He uses the example: that if you hear president Obama, and like his politics, you'll probably like his voice. But if you don't like his politics you'll probably notice that he has very big ears.

    That example is a combination of Ni and Fi. That's the system 1 he's talking about.

    (And System two has Te and Se in it)

    But he is referring to the the loop.

    ***

    I agree with him about the narrow thinking as it can pertain to Ni in cases where it gets bogged down by details.

    The example he gives is : You will treat each choice as if it is the only one.

    And, that relates to inf Se.

    And that's where I can see what you mean I think.

    But as Zara said one has to learn the importance of assimilating the inf.

    ***

    As relating to the op though, and narcissism, I still don't get the link between narcissim and inf Se.

    I'm assuming it's because I am biased and somewhere along life decided I value Ni more than Se. (which, that just means it's a preference)


    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Because at first glance, INTJs tend to be stand-offish and give off a sense of superiority behind their Te-walls. Ime, what really is going on is observation of the situation and keeping people at an arms length to keep themselves safe as they evaluate that situation.

    Once they get past that phase, there is the condescension danger. Some INTJs will determine on their very personal Fi-values whether or not others are worthy of their admittedly limited energy and time - as we all do, btw, they 're just more...visceral about it. Which in itself can rightfully be experienced as condescension.

    After this, some people have their own values, prejudice and jump-to-conclusions problems which leads to dislike of said INTJ
    yes, perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I think its a TeFi vs FeTi thing

    I have the same difficulty in gauging this stuff with NTPs for instance, especially with Fe-related humor coz I'm never quite sure how...much they adhere to social etiquette and therefore, what is up for grabs humor-wise and what is considered a no-no, whereas to FJs it seems often self-evident.

    I guess for me, in this particular example, it is clear that an INTJ, unless incredibly immature and/or deluded, is not going to deny the Holocaust. That would be preposterous to Te. It's a well documented fact and no self-respecting INTJ would deny that in any serious fashion, unless he is capable and willing to back it up. Therefore, to utter such a thing to someone that does not know them very well, is proof of ulterior motive. Since INTJs rarely care for public opinion nor respect those that misinterpret who they are without first attempting to understand their pov (pesky tertiary Fi), they have no qualms trying to sell you such drivel and consider you the moron if you buy it hook, line and sinker.

    Did I mention the condescension issue?

    (You have the interpreter gift too! )

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    It seems respecting choice is often misread as being condescending. If someone has decided they want to eat shit, I let them. The alternative, which is telling them to stop eating shit (if they want to associate with me), seems far more condescending to me as it invalidates their choice. Also, I see eating shit as a symptom of an underlying character flaw. So, whether they stop eating it or not, they are unlikely to be the kind of person I would want to associate with anyway. One might call that condescension, but then having a distaste for shit must also be condescension - and who would want to argue that?
    ^that's some funny shit. (lol)
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